English in America

Posted on December 9th, 2004 in General, Culture by tavaresforby ||

As we all know, the US is facing a very large growth of Hispanic immigration. With this large immigration scale comes a language linguistic barrier. The native language of the US is English, in which many Hispanics immigrants are failing to become proficient in. I came across a good article that demonstrates the different rates in which immigrants in the United States learn the English language. This article also goes into naturalization rates between different immigrants. The high light of this article goes as follows:

  • There exists an English Acquisition Gap between Hispanic immigrants and immigrants of other ancestries. Seventy-one percent of the foreign born speak English proficiently, with different ancestries acquiring English at widely different levels. The ancestries above the median are diverse in continent of origin and native language. The ancestries at the bottom of the scale are disproportionately of Mexican or Central American origin.
  • The English Acquisition Gap cannot be explained by the relative recency of immigration. When comparing different immigrant groups, it is crucial to control for any premature conclusions arising from different times of entry into the United States. When recency is taken into account, the English Acquisition Gap between the Hispanic and the non-Hispanic foreign-born is still evident; in fact, the gap exceeds 20 percentage points.
  • The English Acquisition Gap is evident between the most prominent immigrant groups, and cannot be explained by “issues” with the Spanish language. Recent arrivals from Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe are significantly more likely to learn English than natives of Mexico and Central America. Sub-Saharan Africans and Russians speak English at well above the 71 percent national average, while Mexicans and Guatemalans speak English at the lowest levels of proficiency. Nonetheless, many groups that hail from Spanish-speaking countries speak English at well above the national average, including Venezuelans and Argentineans.
  • There exists a Citizenship Acquisition Gap between Hispanic immigrants and immigrants of other ancestries. As with language, different ancestry groups display vastly different rates of naturalization in the United States. For immigrants that arrived in the United States between 1980 and March 2000, the naturalization rate was 26 percent. However, on one end of the scale, Vietnamese immigrants are naturalized at twice this rate. On the other hand, Mexican immigrants are naturalized at only half the national average. These varying rates are evident on both a national and state level.
  • The English Acquisition Gap may be explained in part by the phenomenon of Demographic Dominance. The U.S. immigrant population, once made up of a diverse mix of nationalities, has become dominated by a single nation. Though the Mexican-born percentage of the immigrant population in 2000 is roughly identical to the German-born percentage of the population in 1890, the lack of representation by other leading immigrant nations may have led to the development of a de facto “second national language.” In 1890, the combined total of the second, third and fourth most common immigrant homelands represented more than 44 percent of the foreign born. In 2000, the nations in the same standing accounted for just over 10 percent.

Here is a figure that shows the proficiency of different immigrants compared to the average.

Have you ever been to a drive-thru at a fast-food restaurant and when you order your food, you can barley understand what the person is saying who is taking your order? I’m pretty sure many of us experience this frequently. This becomes very annoying. I think if you are not proficient in English, than you should not hold a position were you have to deal with the public. I had some work done on my house recently and I approach one of the workers, which was a middle age Hispanic guy. When I asked him a question about some of the work he was doing to my home, he had the lightest clue in what I was saying. He was the only one working on my house at that time. Since I had to be at work soon, I didn’t have time to wait for an English speaking person to come. This disturbed me greatly. This then lead me thinking, “what is the accreditations of this construction/building company that is working on my house when they hire someone that cannot speak English. Does this person have credentials on building or construction work?” I seriously doubt it!

I think that many non-English speaking Hispanics feel that they don’t need to learn English because of the large population of Hispanics here in the US. Many fluent Spanish speaking Hispanics work throughout the community, which enables non-English speaking Hispanics to go through life without learning English. I often notice many Hispanics speaking amongst themselves in their native language when I go to places like grocery stores and other public places.

Here is another figure that shows the foreign born population in the US.

A couple months back, I was driving down the 105fwy heading west off of the 710fwy. Right there in Lynwood, CA smack on the side of the freeway to the right was this BIG GIGANTIC sign that said “Mexico Plaza”. What!!! I’m sorry, but I think this is going way too far. These are very good reasons why illegal immigration needs to be addressed.

153 Responses to “English in America”

  1. LatinoPundit Says:

    I don’t understand the surprise people have as to why Hispanic immigrants don’t have totall fluency with English. Your missing the boat. Most have a working knowledge of the language or know enough to participate with the public. Accents? Deal with it. The missing the boat part is that their children or children’s children will be better at English b/c they were here longer. This should be a no-brainer.

  2. Tavares Forby Says:

    LatinoPundit,

    I don’t understand the surprise people have as to why Hispanic immigrants don’t have totall fluency with English.

    This data clearly shows that Hispanic is the least proficient from all other immigrants. How is it that other immigrants can be more proficient in the English language than Hispanics?

    Most have a working knowledge of the language or know enough to participate with the public. Accents? Deal with it.

    You can say this because you are probably fluent with Spanish. Try thinking outside the box and stop being biased because you are Hispanic. Or better yet, try this. Go to a purely English speaking restaurant and try to order your food in Spanish. See how far you would get. That is exactly how it feels when trying to order food at fast food drive-thus.

    And NO, I am not going to deal with paying my hard earned money for some food I didn’t order.

    Besides, it is not only Hispanic people have problems with, they are just the BIG majority. Many blacks have the same issue (in black communities) with Asians and hair salons and fish markets. But I think they be faking that they cannot speak English. But still, it is very annoying when trying to talk to them.

  3. LatinoPundit Says:

    >How is it that other immigrants can be more proficient in the English language than Hispanics?

    Community and numbers.

    >Go to a purely English speaking restaurant and try to order your food in Spanish.

    Point to what you want.

    Again, the latter generations will be more afluent.

    >

  4. LatinoPundit Says:

    You can see some interesting feedback from Latinos (including BlackPundit) over at my site.

  5. Tavares Forby Says:

    Community and numbers.
    But do you think this is fair to the native language?

    Again, the latter generations will be more afluent.
    Yea right, there will always be a lot of immigrants coming from Mexico. Which means there will always be a current generation who will not be proficient in English.

  6. jesus1831 Says:

    THe proximity of the U.S. with latin-american countries and the perceived job opportunities will continue to lure more spanish speakers to America(as the charts show). Furthermore, businesses will continue to hire spanish speakers with limited english skills because of its economic advantages in respective environemnts.

    As Professor Huntington would agree, Latinos and their language are here to stay for good. So if you don’t like the businesses who serve you because of their workers’ lack of english skills, guess what? You can find a restaurant of your liking or complain and hope for someone to really care. And unless it has a big impact on their business, your pretty much asked out. So yeah, you pretty much have to deal with it.

    P.S. As far as your comment regarding the ‘Plaza Mexico’ in Lynwood, why would you consider its building so appalling? Does not ‘China Town’ exist? or ‘Little Vietnam’? or countless other businesses who pander to their target consumers? Its a matter of economics, not an anomaly.

  7. Tavares Forby Says:

    Yes they will continue to grow with the help of weak Mexico boarders and illegal immagration. I am pretty sure if it wasn’t for illegal immigration, the US will not have these issues I am discussing today…

  8. Ninguna Says:

    You guys made my day. I came here to read about Spanish speaking immigrants’ slow acquisition of English proficiency only to find a “blind leading the blind” debate among a bunch of morons who can’t write coherently in English themselves.

    HA!

    Immigrants’ kids still favor English

    By Rachel Swarns, The New York Times

    WASHINGTON — English remains the language of choice among the children and grandchildren of Hispanic immigrants, despite continuing waves of migration from Latin America and concerns from some analysts that English may lose ground to Spanish in some parts of the United States, a new analysis of census data shows.

    The study, conducted by researchers at the State University of New York at Albany, is the latest foray in a fierce debate about whether the continuing stream of immigration from Latin America will challenge traditional assimilation patterns charted by the descendants of European migrants.

    Scholars say that the descendants of most European immigrants who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th centuries became exclusively English-speakers within three generations. In recent years, some people have questioned whether the descendants of Hispanic immigrants will follow suit, given the surging numbers of Spanish-speaking arrivals and the emphasis on multiculturalism and increased globalization.

    The study, which examined data from the 2000 census, found that most Hispanic-Americans were also moving steadily toward English monolingualism. The report found that 72 percent of Hispanic children who were third-generation or later spoke English exclusively.

    The report suggested that the trend had generally continued among Mexican-Americans, the country’s largest immigrant group, even during the immigration boom of the 1990s. In 1990, 64 percent of third- and later-generation Mexican-American children spoke only English at home, the study showed. By 2000, that figure had risen to 71 percent.

    Richard Alba, director of the Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban and Regional Research at SUNY-Albany, says the study suggests that many people have underestimated the pressures of assimilation, which continue to drive immigrants and their descendants toward English as they seek success in the American mainstream.

    Even for Hispanics in Los Angeles, a magnet for immigration from Latin America, the pattern of language shifts across generations remained similar to those among Hispanics nationally, he said.

    “A number of people, whether from the left or the right, are underplaying the contemporary signs of assimilation,” Alba said. “They are viewing American society as much more fractured along ethnic and cultural lines than really appears to be the case. There are fault lines, but they are not as deep as people think.”

    Samuel P. Huntington, a professor of political science at Harvard who touched off a furor this year by warning that continuing high levels of Hispanic immigration might “eventually change America into a country of two languages, two cultures and two peoples,” said he agreed with Alba’s findings.

    But he said that Alba’s study reflected the experiences of the descendants of Hispanic immigrants who arrived in the 1960s, when the large waves of Latin American migration to the United States were just beginning. He said the study did little to predict the experiences of the grandchildren of more recent Hispanic arrivals.

  9. Tavares Forby Says:

    Ninguna, you seem to be a little blind yourself. You take one article and think you have the answer.

    Immigrants’ kids still favor English

    Let’s look at the big picture here. Let’s look at the entire Hispanic community, not just the kids. Many of the elder legal and illegal Hispanic immigrants ARE NOT proficient in the English language regardless of what any article you find says. Now, let me comment some of the excerpts you have taken from your article.

    Scholars say that the descendants of most European immigrants who arrived in the late 19th and early 20th centuries became exclusively English-speakers within three generations. In recent years, some people have questioned whether the descendants of Hispanic immigrants will follow suit, given the surging numbers of Spanish-speaking arrivals and the emphasis on multiculturalism and increased globalization.

    I seriously doubt that Hispanic immigrants would become exclusively English-speakers within three generations. Hispanics are on their second generation now and haven’t come close. They will never come close because Mexico is TOO close and there are TOO many Hispanics that are fluent in Spanish out here in the US, especially here in Southern California. So what is their incentive in learning the English language? NONE!!! Also, since many of the immigrants are coming from a third world country, they are just down right happy just to be in the US. They don’t care about speaking English because they are now living a better life then what they were living before and they have a shit load of fluent Spanish speaking people to comminute with. Bottom line, there is no incentive for many immigrants to learn English.

    Richard Alba, director of the Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban and Regional Research at SUNY-Albany, says the study suggests that many people have underestimated the pressures of assimilation, which continue to drive immigrants and their descendants toward English as they seek success in the American mainstream.

    This is only the case for a very small percentage of the Hispanic immigrants. Like I stated before, majority of the Hispanics immigrants comes from a third world country Therefore seeking success is not a concern to them because they are content with working minimum wage jobs in the US as apposed to living in third world conditions.

    Samuel P. Huntington, a professor of political science at Harvard who touched off a furor this year by warning that continuing high levels of Hispanic immigration might “eventually change America into a country of two languages, two cultures and two peoples,” said he agreed with Alba’s findings.

    My point exactly!!!

    Bottom line. Many Hispanic immigrants are not proficient in English and I honestly believe they have no care to be for all the reasons I stated.

    -BlackPundit

  10. LatinoPundit Says:

    Check out this link. How 2nd/3rd generation Latinos prefer English. Link

  11. El Oso, El Moreno, and El Abogado » A Spanglish Society Says:
    […] ay December 14th, 2004 A Spanglish Society By oso @ 3:12 pm The conservative Black Pundit and the liberal Latino Pundit have an interesting exchange going on about language in America […]

  12. Tavares Forby Says:

    My comment to LatinoPundit

    First of all, I seriously hope that Black Pundit’s comments weren’t deleted.

    I hope not either. It was strange to find that only my comments were deleted.

    Secondly, I find it disheartening that a black man would define Standard English as the only acceptable form of communication in the US. Especially because it was Blacks in the 80’s and 90’s that made so much progress in getting Ebonics recognized as a valid form of communication in a multicultural society.

    First, I would like to say that I am an open minded black man. I take issues and think for myself about them. As far as Ebonics, it’s a joke and I never supported it. Ebonics hinders Blacks. Let’s be real here. Do you think Corporate America will hire someone that speaks Ebonics? I think not!!! Look at this article on just how black names can hinder people. It is very similar to Ebonics.

    Our language reflects our society; it always has. Just like citizens of other countries around the world are realizing the necessity of learning English in the 21st century, Americans should realize the need to learn Spanish.

    Yes, I do agree that our language reflects our society. That is why you can speak your language to your peers, or when you are at home, or what ever, etc… I (and others) just have a problem with the communication barrier when it comes to work and services. Like the data showed on my site, Hispanics are the least proficient. If other immigrants can come to this country and become proficient in English, than why can’t Hispanics?

    Look, I hope I have not offended anyone. I am not prejudice against Hispanics. HispanicPundit can vouch for that. I just believe that all immigrants should be proficient in English when dealing the rest of America and it just so happens that Hispanics are the least in being proficient in English. I have to deal with this on the regular basis and it becomes very frustrating to me.

    As a matter of fact, I had to deal with this English barrier the other day (no joke). I called a Carls Jr. to get the directions to it, and the Hispanic that answered the phone could barely speak English and could not give me directions.

    Yes I just frustrated and hung up the phone in his face. Maybe I have a temper problem (let alone with many others).

    So, since I see many of you are getting offended by this topic, than you tell me, what should I do? What is the solution if you do not want to make English a language standard? And please don’t give me any answer like “deal with it.”

    -BlackPundit

  13. oso Says:

    Tavares, I’m glad to hear you’ve been able to find a good job despite your name. (BTW, I found this to be pretty interesting - what’s the origin of Tavares?)

    I would recommend practicing a little patience, a little understanding, and a little Spanish. It certainly wouldn’t hurt you to speak another language.

    I’m curious, have you ever traveled out of the country?

    Thanks for your response … it seemed sincere and the fact that you call Carl’s Jr. for directions gave me a good laugh.

  14. UnknownPundit Says:

    I am astonished those who have replied to Black Pundit have let him off the hook so easily. If a guy named White Pundit would have written these things, he would certainly have been lynched by now. Maybe we are witnessing Affirmative Action at work right in front of our eyes! Just kidding, folks.

    Nobody seemed to notice that BlackPundit claimed, “the native language of the US is English.” Did he forget something? The true native languages would have to be Cree, and Choctaw, and Navajo, wouldn’t they? The history books tell us the first European to set foot in the Americas was Columbus. His voyages were financed by, and the New World was claimed for, the, uh, er, the Spanish!? Oops, we have a problem here. But who cares about the past, right?

    It is equally shocking that Latinos are letting BP off so easily. The articles BP referred to were probably written with the hope of promoting English assimilation for the economic betterment of the Latino immigrant community. To me, it sounds like BP is using the data to reinforce his notion that Latinos are stupider than other immigrants. He just doesn’t like Latinos. They are different from him, they don’t conform to his standards, and that is bothersome. How else can his reaction to “Mexico Plaza” be explained?

    BP said, “I think if you are not proficient in English, than you should not hold a position were you have to deal with the public.” Just who would be responsible for enforcing this? Would it be the government, perhaps? How else, except by law, could such an idea be enforced? We don’t want that, do we? This reminds me of something I witnessed a couple years ago. It was about the same time of year. It was Christmas day, if I recall correctly. There was some guy with a U-Haul truck stopped on the freeway connector between the 60 and the I-15, just east of Los Angeles. He said the truck was full of explosives, and that he was going to blow himself up. The California Highway Patrol stopped traffic in both directions of both the 60 and 15 freeways, just as people were trying to make it to their relatives’ homes for the traditional Xmas turkey dinner. It was a mess. I was listening to an AM talk radio station, and people were calling in, expressing their frustration with the traffic. One by one, they asked, “He’s making me late, why don’t they just shoot this guy?” It was disgusting. Not one person voiced any consideration for this guy’s God-given rights as a human being. All I heard was selfishness. Fortunately, the guys with the guns realized that on that day, at that time, that one man’s life was more important than everyone else’s combined inconvenience and frustration. He didn’t end up having any explosives. He was distraught about his estranged wife, and apparently his feelings were exacerbated by the timing of the holidays. The cops got his wife on the phone, and after a couple hours, he was talked into giving himself up. Nobody was hurt, and eventually the freeways were re-opened. You know what? That’s the price we pay for living in a free society. The government can’t shoot you just because you cause some folks an inconvenience. Nor can they make laws that discriminate against people that can’t tell you how to get to Carl’s Jr. The answer is to “deal with it.” The alternative is tyranny.

  15. Tavares Forby Says:

    I am astonished those who have replied to Black Pundit have let him off the hook so easily. If a guy named White Pundit would have written these things, he would certainly have been lynched by now. Maybe we are witnessing Affirmative Action at work right in front of our eyes! Just kidding, folks.

    If a person by the name of White Pundit wrote these things, I would read it with an open mind and comment accordingly. And as far as Affirmative Action, NEVER!!!

    Nobody seemed to notice that BlackPundit claimed, “the native language of the US is English.” Did he forget something? The true native languages would have to be Cree, and Choctaw, and Navajo, wouldn’t they? The history books tell us the first European to set foot in the Americas was Columbus. His voyages were financed by, and the New World was claimed for, the, uh, er, the Spanish!? Oops, we have a problem here. But who cares about the past, right?

    The key word here is “US”. Therefore, the true native language would not be Cree, Choctaw, and Navajo! It would be English.

    To me, it sounds like BP is using the data to reinforce his notion that Latinos are stupider than other immigrants. He just doesn’t like Latinos. They are different from him, they don’t conform to his standards, and that is bothersome.

    I never said that Latinos are stupider than other immigrants. Actually, I think many of you guys are extremely smart. Especially, being very good friends of HispanicPundit for a very long time.

    UnknownPundit, it is impossible to have multiple languages as a standard. And if it was possible, who is it to say that Spanish should be the second language. Why not Chinese or some other language? I think that may people are taking this the wrong way and many responders are biased. Try stepping out of your shoes and looking at this from another perspective. Image being born and raised in Mexico and many immigrants migrate to your country and try to impose their language on you. I honestly think that you would not be happy with it. Also, how is it fair to other immigrants? How come they cannot impose their languages too?

    -BlackPundit

  16. UnknownPundit Says:

    You can’t have what you are looking for in a free society. You simply have to deal with it, because, in the U.S., folks that don’t speak English fluently don’t have any less right to be prosperous and multiply. If you want to live in a homogeneous country, try North Korea. I’ve heard they have the kind of language restrictions you are looking for.

  17. emiliano zapata Says:

    THEY SHOULD BEAT AND HANG THEM JUST LIKE THEY DID AFRICANS TO HAVE THEM FORGET THEIR LANGUAGES. WHITES WERE AFRAID OF BLACKS REVEALING AGAINTS THEM… NOW BLACKS ARE AFRAID OF THE SPANISH POWER AND AFRAID THAT WE HONOR, RESPECT OUR LANGUAGE…
    YO HABLO ESPANOL Y MIS HIJOS HABLARAN ESPANOL, LOS HIJOS DE MIS HIJOS HABLARAN ESPANOL! GUSTE A QUIEN LE GUSTE!!!!!!

  18. Tavares Forby Says:

    emiliano zapata,

    You stupid…

  19. Dude Says:

    Ok I work at a big retail store in Southern Califronia. It is really frustrating for the customers when I don’t speak spainish and they can’t read the AMT/ Credit Card Machine because they don’t read english. I had one guy get really mad at me because I only know a little bit of spanish and I couldn’t help him with his Credit Card because he was pushing the wrong buttons on the machine. On top of that I could understand what he was saying. I suggested to my manager that we get card machines that have the option of spanish. But why should the company spend money to fix a problem that isn’t their fault? And why should I learn how to speak spanish fluently? Its not my falut that they don’t take the time to learn America’s Language.

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