Stanley “Tookie” Williams
Posted on November 23rd, 2005 in General, Politics, Culture by tavaresforby ||
A good friend of mine wrote a good article on Stanley “Tookie” Williams, the founder of the crips.
Stanley “Tookie” Williams Must Die
There is a lot of attention being paid to this issue as the date of Mr. Williams execution approaches. I for one have to say that I am appalled by what I have seen and heard so far. In fact I’m outraged. I would like to say that the time for our society and Black Americans especially, has come to deal in reality. The reality that “Tookie” is a murderer responsible for the deaths of not only 4 innocent persons. But he is also a founding member of the Crips which by itself places the blood of a few thousand others on him as well. And to this day the Crips continue to destroy lives in our cities nation wide. This is directly attributable to him. Now I will briefly address some of the issues that are being brought forward on Mr. Williams behalf and I will close by directly addressing the so called “community leaders”.
Perhaps the most legitimate argument for sparing Mr. Williams life has nothing to do with Mr. Williams. And it is the issue of the death penalty. My personal belief is that we need a death penalty to deter individuals who would otherwise harm of kill people. Studies have shown that the threat of facing the death penalty has influenced many would be killers to reconsider in the moment of truth which is a good thing. And it also helps to bring closure to the families of victims in murder cases. Now having said all of that it is a personal opinion and I acknowledge that everybody will not agree and some feel that the death penalty is morally wrong. My counter argument is that we live in a democratic society. We do have the power to pass laws prohibiting the use of the death penalty. And should the people of California vote in favor of such a law, while I disagree with it, I would support it until I had a chance to vote it down. But because the death penalty IS LEGAL and is on the books. In order for our laws to have legitimacy, WE MUST CARRY OUT THE SENTENCE. Otherwise what would be the point of having it on the books? So my conclusion is that while I understand people’s moral opposition to the death penalty, it is a legal method of punishment and therefore we must carry it out when it is handed down in the sentencing phase to maintain the integrity of our legal system.
Speaking of the legal system. Many have argued that Mr. Williams has not received a fair trial and was not judged by his peers. Well I would say that’s nonsense. The jury that found him guilty did have a black person which is roughly proportional to the number of Black Americans in the population. Also it would be highly unlikely for a member of the Crips to actually show up to jury duty. So Mr. Williams was given a jury most representative of the society in which he lived. And that Jury was able to make the judgment that Mr. Williams did in fact commit the accused crimes based on the available evidence which included his own Shotgun and a shell casing that matched it.
In regard to evidence, Mr. Williams has many times appealed his case and on each occasion his appeal has been overturned. As time progressed there have been technological advances that would have been able to refute the evidence against him if it wasn’t true. But because Mr. Williams did in fact kill people and did in fact found the Crips his conviction stands as it should.
Appeals and rush to carry out the sentence. I would like to say that perhaps one of the greatest deceptions is that Mr. Williams is being rushed to his death. That claim is flat out laughable. First of all these crimes happened in 1981 if I recall correctly. This means that Mr. Williams has been on death row longer than some of this article’s readers have been alive! I think that 20+ years of appeals is enough and in reality too long but I digress.
Then there is the argument that because Mr. Williams has been nominated for the Nobel Prize and has written children’s books ect. He should be spared. First it should be noted that Mr. Williams Children’s books were ghost written and he allowed the writers to use his name. Second the Nomination of the Nobel Peace Prize is subjective and originated in Europe where the United States practice of putting incorrigibles to death is frowned upon. In other words the Nobel nomination for Mr. Williams represented yet another European anti American protest which used the Nobel Prize nomination visibility to elevate the European objection to the Death Penalty to the spot light. Let me just say that America is an independent nation and while we are appreciative of the advice we receive from allies. Foreigners should not be allowed to interfere in our legal processes.
What effect would Mr. Williams execution has on young would be gang members looking for a way out and people in general. We ideally it would have the effect of making people see the high price to be paid for committing savagery on fellow human beings. You will not hear that said aloud in the mass media. No instead you will hear things like Mr. Williams death will harden people and lessen the incentive for people to change. This is pure and utter nonsense. It’s meant to take advantage of weak minded people. Anybody who wants to leave gang life style need only to reflect inward and ask what it is about them that makes them want to get out. And then they must WORK and actually do it themselves for it to have any meaning. There was crime prior to Mr. Williams, and there will be crime when he is gone. So whether or not Mr. Williams lives or dies it irrelevant in that context except maybe that by letting him live. We will be showing that actions don’t have consequences.
Hollywood. I use the term Hollywood to describe the collage of celebrities and activist who have attached themselves to Mr. Williams for various reasons. The bottom line is that Hollywood is not qualified to discuss or decide upon the legitimacy of the death penalty alone. That is a right that belongs to the voters of California. All of us. And the People have decided. Hollywood actors have jobs just like the rest of us. And if this debate were about acting methodology, rapping or how to be a celebrity. I would not question their expertise. But when it comes to issues such as laws, politics and ethics. I think it’s disingenuous for them to use their celebrity influence to demonize people they don’t agree with. For them to claim their OPINIONS are anything more than that is an abomination.
Race pimpin’. I remember reading and listening to Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X. Real community leaders. I remember reading about Rosa Parks. To me, those individuals are community leaders. A real community leader would have the guts to stand up in front of the TV cameras and tell the people that when you do the crime you do the time. And that murdering people has to have consequences or we will have anarchy. Even the Bible says an Eye for an eye! Stanley “Tookie” Williams is a murderer not a saint. Enough racial bigotry still exist in America that Black Americans must choose carefully those issues to rally behind so as to be taken seriously when it matters! For example, when a Black American is more qualified and its time to get promoted to CEO and all the other candidates are white! Then when and if race has anything to do with non selection, people will take the allegation more seriously. For Black Americans to waste political capital on a convicted murdered and founder of a gang that has killed more US citizens than the 9/11 attackers is ludicrous! There is a limit to the amount of times one can cry wolf before people stop listening. So called community leadership are taking advantage of and exploiting Black Americans for their own reasons that will cause far more harm than good by arguing that somehow Mr. Williams’s execution represents some sort of racism! In fact those so called community leaders should be rejected for such outrageous behavior. Tell the truth.
Not before concluding I’m going to speak briefly about religion for the benefit of believers and non believers alike. When Jesus hung on the cross. Next to him was a criminal who was also being executed. This criminal asked the Lord for forgiveness which Jesus granted because of the Lords knowledge of the sincerity of this persons heart. And after giving that forgiveness, the criminal died shortly after as a result of his crucifixion. According to Jesus this man was allowed into the Kingdom of Heaven. But only AFTER confessing and then being EXECUTED HERE ON EARTH. Considering that it would be within the Lords power to save this mans life. Why was it that only Jesus arose from the grave? I’ll withhold the answer so that individuals can reflect on this point.
In addition to sending Mr. Williams this letter and attempting to visit him. Here is what I am advising Mr. Williams to do and it is what I would do if I was in his shoes. I would tell Mr. Williams that he has a unique opportunity right a lot of the wrong he has done and perhaps he could even attain immortality by doing the following. Mr. Williams could write a letter to the public and specifically the youth. In his letter he should renounce the Crips and gang banging. He should use his life as an example of how the gangsta lifestyle is not good and should not be emulated or encouraged. And most of all he should apologize to the victims. Including all those victimized by gang violence. He should also tell the activist making false allegations of racism to leave and not make a mockery of the hardships that Black Americans have had to face when legitimately falsely accused in the past. And then He should walk into the death chamber and accept death as a payment for his sins. This would demonstrate to the youth that crime has consequences. But even more powerful it would demonstrate his willingness to accept responsibility for his actions. Through this act of courage he would influence many times more people, draw attention to the issue of the death penalty so that a true public discussion of its merit could take place. And he would be showing to a lot of young men how to be a man and accept responsibility for his actions. In this act he would instantly become the father of so many young men who never had a man around to show them what being a man means. His actions would be talked about, movies would be made and Mr. Williams, Stanley “Tookie” Williams, would never be forgotten. In a sense he would become immortal. And in his final act, Stanley “Tookie” Williams would achieve, Redemption.
Sincerely
Brandon
November 24th, 2005 at 7:56 pm
thank you stop the insanity he hasnt even admitted to the crimes.
November 26th, 2005 at 12:13 pm
A VERY WELL AND RESPONSIBLE COMMENTARY…THANK YOU
November 26th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
He who is withouth sin, let him cast the first stone. My brother the thing is that when God sees sin who does not see murder, lie, fornication, adultry, he only see’s sin. No big sin no little sin just sin. It must be great to walk in life and be perfect without sin. Mr Williams perhaps maybe guilty but he will be judged by God and should not be killed by us. We cannot give life so how can we take it away.
November 26th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Awesome thoughts. Thanks. Tookie certainly didn’t listen to his victims cry for mercy. Why isn’t Snoop, etc… fighting for THOSE people’s rights. Hollywood—ug! Who needs em!
November 27th, 2005 at 12:55 am
You might be more convincing if you had a working knowledge of spelling and grammar. Have you even looked into the facts of the case? It doesn’t appear so.
November 27th, 2005 at 11:45 am
I agree 100%………YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Yes there was 2 shell casing found at the scene. Out of 18 that were there. That would 18-2=16 16 shell cases that DID NOT belong to Mr. Williams. And to top it all off, the person found with the weapon….was a CRIMINAL as well. So, before you go around pretching the bible and other things, you need to get your facts straight. And let me ask you this…….if your own son or daughter came to you and said ” I like Mr.Tookie Williams’ books, can I read them. They might help me out.” What are you gonna tell them “No,he’s a bad man”. I believe in the death penalty,to a degree. Yes he has had a trial,yes he has been found guilty,but like you stated 20+ yrs,and this man still claims to be innocent. Even tho he knows his death could be with in matter of weeks,don’t you think,he would say ok,it’s time to tell the truth. But he’s not,why? because he didn’t do it.He should be in prison for the rest of his life. Not because of those murders,but because of the other crimes he has openly admitted of doing. I say let him live,and help those that he can touch through his work!
November 27th, 2005 at 2:40 pm
He won’t admit his guilt if there is a chance his sentence could be commuted to life in prison. Any lawyer who knows anything will tell you to deny to your grave. The truth is that the formation and leadership of the Crips leaves him guilty to the point of deserving the death penalty. It’s well known these gang members lead their gangs in jail and the outside gangs from jail. I agree with Black Pundit, he sets a worse example if allowed to live. He shows that indiscriminant killing will not cost him his life. “Tookie” has now had 20 more years of life than his victims have had, in my eye that’s more a crime than the death penalty can erase. The murdered are lost in time and only those close mourn their loss while the ignorant rally to the killer and make a martyr of him, and society stands at a fork in the road that will determine whether we show our resolve is for justice and the law or we allow the very fabric of our security and society to crumble under the ideas of misplaced activism.
November 27th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
This is my first time reading your blog. I came across it as I am doing research on Tookie Williams. I am personally anti-death penalty, but believe the decisions of the jury and the courts should be upheld and Williams should be executed. While I don’t see the death penalty as a deterrent to crime in most cases, I believe that it will serve as such to the millions who admire Williams.
You stated your argument wonderfully. I feel this is one of the most well argued pieces I’ve seen. I will be back!
November 28th, 2005 at 1:00 pm
I commend you for writing the above, everyone should consider the lives of the victims and their families and the impact this man’s actions have so heavily plagued their lives. God’s role will be the ultimate decision.
November 28th, 2005 at 3:07 pm
Maybe if we used the names of the murdered human beings, instead of continually and arbitrarily calling them “the victims” - like
some type inane collective or something. They had names. They were people. They had families, and many who loved them.
Albert Owens, was killed in a robbery of a 7-Eleven store on Feb. 27, 1979.
Yen-I Yang and Thsai-Shaic Yang and their daughter, Yee Chen Lin, at the Brookhaven Motel on South Vermont… And the countless others that have been killed by Crip guns. Multiply that by at least two parents, a son or daughter, sister or brother, or cousin, or auntie, that loved each.
Perhaps, for those of you that seek clemency, you might feel
differently if it had been your mother, or brother that he killed senselessly.
November 28th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
i was just like to say that what was based on the movie if it were all true i belive that that a man can learn from his mistakes he should live not to be on this earth just to live but to insure the youth that are in gangs right now get to live he has a powerfull message and i belive that us black people or even all racis should unite and let this turned around man live t
November 28th, 2005 at 9:50 pm
—Please read the Bible. It is one of the biggest supporters of the death penalty.
Brandon
November 28th, 2005 at 9:59 pm
“And to top it all off, the person found with the weapon….was a CRIMINAL as well. So, before you go around pretching the bible and other things, you need to get your facts straight. And let me ask you this…….if your own son or daughter came to you and said ” I like Mr.Tookie Williams’ books, can I read them. They might help me out.” What are you gonna tell them “No,he’s a bad man”. I believe in the death penalty,to a degree. Yes he has had a trial,yes he has been found guilty,but like you stated 20+ yrs,and this man still claims to be innocent.”
—You should tone down your rhetoric and debate in just the facts. At this point only two facts about “Tookie” are relevant. Here they are for your viewing pleasure:
1) He was found guilty of murder and sentenced to die this year on Dec 13th.
2) Only Governor Schwarzenegger can stop it.
Based on your comments. What do you think the chances of “Tookie” being alive on the 14th? An interesting challenge for you in the few days “Tookie” has left would be for you to read and post the various Crip related murders that will happen between now and then. I wonder if you would feel the same after about the demise of the co-founder of the Crips.
Brandon
November 28th, 2005 at 10:02 pm
“You might be more convincing if you had a working knowledge of spelling and grammar. Have you even looked into the facts of the case? It doesn’t appear so.”
—Thank You for observations of my poor spelling and grammar. After “Tookie” is executed for the murders I’ll write a little more and you can see if there was any improvement.
Brandon
November 28th, 2005 at 11:24 pm
I’m astounded that anyone who is a murderer and whose own son is a convicted murderer too can be considered a reformed man. If you believe that, keep your kids away from mine.
November 29th, 2005 at 12:26 pm
I HAVE READ ALL YOUR COMMENTS AND AM TRUELY PERPLEXED AT SOME OF THEM! I DON’T REALY LIKE THE IDEAL OF THE DEATH PENELTY BUT KNOW THAT IT SEEMS TO BE A NESSESARY EVIL. THIS MAN MAY BE REFORMED BUT HE HAS NOT MANY CHOICES CONSIDERING HE IS IN PRISON. HE IS IN WITH CRIMINALS THAT PROBABLY MAKE HIS CRIME LOOK PETTY. GOD PUT US ON THIS EARTH TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES AND YES WE DO CREATE LIFE JUST AS SOME US CREATE DEATH SO BRINGING GOD INTO IT IS A COP OUT. THIS GUY DID THE CRIME I HAVE READ ALL ABOUT THE CASE AND I THINK IT’S TIME PEOPLE QUIT LOOKING UP TO PEOPLE LIKE THIS! HE MUST PAY FOR HIS CRIME.
November 29th, 2005 at 1:12 pm
FIRST OF ALL I THINK THAT YOU ARE A BRILLANT HUMAN BEING, FROM A REALITY STANDPOINT. BUT FROM A SPIRITUAL STAND POINT YOU LEAVE A LOT TO BE DESIRED.YOU QUOTED SCRIPTURE FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT, WHICHAT THAT TIME IN MAN’S HISTORY WE WERE INDEED UNDER THE LAW — BUT NOW MY BROTHER IT’S BY GRACE ARE WE SAVED AND NOT OF OURSELVES. SO IF YOU QUOTE THE SCRIPTURE I ASK YOU, DO YOU BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURE?AND IF YOU BELIEVE THEN I ASK YOU WHERE IS YOUR FORGIVENESS.FOR IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE, THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WE HAVE ALL SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. AND THAT ONE DAY AFTER A while AND BYE AND BYE WE WILL ALL SIT IN THE JUDGEMENT SIT, FOR IF YOU CAN’T FORGIVE THAN HOW CAN YOU BE FORGIVEN.—AND IF YOU CAN’T BE FORGIVEN THEN ALL HOPE IS LOST , AND THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE OF US ON EARTH –ALL MANKIND–THINK ABOUT IT. ==THE THINKER .
November 29th, 2005 at 2:17 pm
I agree with your opinions totally. We as a black people have to learn to be responsible for our actions and not be offended when the truth is spoken. While I straddle the fence on the death penalty, I do agree it is a necessary evil to a certain degree. The only negative thing I have to say is for such eloquent and thought provoking wording, there are a lot of grammatical and punctuation errors in your article.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:25 pm
What a weak minded and forgiving society we live in. Our system doesnt work because of a society thats makes excuses for people. Whether these people are white collar criminals, gangbangers or anyone else inbetween, there needs to be a standard and it should be enforced. If the man has been convicted to death, he has numerous appeals for a reason. Who cares if he writes books for young kids… Just look at the facts people! I like the persons comment about there was ONLY 2 shells that matched him and 16 others that didnt… What an idiot you are. Who cares if NOT 1 matched Tookie?? WHY was he there in the first place?? He wasnt in the wrong place at the wrong time, he was there for a reason even though he may not have made the fatally shots, his intention was. People that are so weak minded should never be allowed in a court room much less on a jury. Have you people ever heard of tough love? Well, Tookie needs some. The kids in our society have NO FEAR and thats why we have some of the problems we all face today. I feel the death penalty in a good way to show what can happen if you fail to make right choices in life. You take a LIFE, you should have yours taken in return!! An Eye for an Eye.
November 29th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
Williams deserves to die and WILL die!!
The facts are: It does not matter what he has DONE in prison!!
But he will pay with his life for what he DID to 4 innocent people!!
Desperate people will do anything to save themselves…he is still a “crip” and a con-man.
November 29th, 2005 at 5:00 pm
Gas His,you know what!What about the victims he so bragged about and executed,what about the people he did’nt get caught Murdering! He was found guilty and now all of a sudden he is peaceful now that he can’t rein his terror?Look what this ANIMAL started,the Crabs are one of the most notorious gangs and filthy members in the nation and they are spreading like a virus.I guess that’s something to be proud of my Brothers? What about the victims of the four people he MURDERED?Look at his Son,he is accused of molesting a young girl.I betcha Daddy’s real proud of his son “Jones”.I heard one of the “Founders” of the crabs sons is doing time,last I heard 45 years in State Prison.Pull the switch and let God make Judgement on this Idiot!
November 29th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
you do the crime you have to pay for it! Sure now he’s sorry when it comes to a death penalty.,,,we all would be!! Fact of the matter is life is all about choices..whats hapenning to him now is a result of his own choice. I have the choice today to do terrible things to others…but will I? NO!! Coz i have a conscience and respect for others. His teachings to gang members and youths to stay away from a life of crime will be much appreciated and is the least he can do before departing.
November 29th, 2005 at 6:36 pm
Williams and all gangs are no better than a bag of garbage on the side of the road!!
He took the wrong road in life and its to late to turn back now!!
He will burn in hell forever!
He should not be looked at as a role model EVER!
November 29th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
I think that it is extremely hypocritical for a black person to say that Stanley “Tookie” Williams should be excecuted. We are always the first ones to complain about how our brothers come out of jail the same way they went in or worse. Here we have a perfect example of some one who was incarserated and has been rehabilitated. “Tookie” has completely turned his life around. He’s gone from founding one of America’s largest street gangs, to encouraging young people to stay in school and off the streets. Now, no amount of childrens books or good will, will change the fact that “Tookie” killed people. But at the same time, everyone deserves a chance to change and to be recognized as changed. We as Black Americans should get behind “Tookie” and pray for him.
November 29th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Why is this a black thing? Again, this is why our society needs alot of help… It’s people like you that like to focus on the aftermath. Those four dead people never get another chance to say goodbye to their loved ones, they never had a chance to do anything but DIE in cold blood!!! Quit making excuses for others mistakes and let things take there course. Isnt is amazing that this guy has all the focus on him and there is no light on the victims families whatsoever… Im not an evil heartless person as Im sure I appear to be, but I do believe that people get what they deserve… Good or bad!!
November 30th, 2005 at 5:08 am
Crip 4 life! Crip in peace cuz
November 30th, 2005 at 10:52 am
I dot think Tookie should not die. I understand that he killed 4 people and robbed a store but look at what his is doing to make up for what he did. He is not just standing around and braging about being the king of the crips like most men would have done. He is trying his best to stop all of this mess he started and he is trying to save these children from getting killed most of these men would not be doing this. I think Tookie is trying to change his life around and he is doing a good job of it. People need to stop thinking about all the bad he has done and think about all the good he is doing. I think Tookie is a good person and if I had a chance to meet him I would.
November 30th, 2005 at 11:52 am
The Apology
Twenty-five years ago when I created the Crips youth gang with Raymond Lee Washington in South Central Los Angeles, I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed. I also didn’t expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men.
Raymond was murdered in 1979. But if he were here, I believe he would be as troubled as I am by the Crips legacy.
So today I apologize to you all — the children of America and South Africa — who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.
As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children’s book series. My goal is to reach as many young minds as possible to warn you about the perils of a gang lifestyle.
I am no longer “dys-educated” (disease educated). I am no longer part of the problem. Thanks to the Almighty, I am no longer sleepwalking through life.
I pray that one day my apology will be accepted. I also pray that your suffering, caused by gang violence, will soon come to an end as more gang members wake up and stop hurting themselves and others.
I vow to spend the rest of my life working toward solutions.
Amani (Peace),
Stanley “Tookie” Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder,
April 13, 1997
November 30th, 2005 at 1:06 pm
OK, I UNDERSTAND HIS NEED TO BE SORRY. BUT HE HAS NOTHING TO DO BUT SIT AND THINK ABOUT WHAT HE HAS DONE AND HOW HE CAN GET OUT. WITHOUT THE HOPE OF GETTING OUT WHAT PURPOSE WOULD HE HAVE? HE HAS KILLED 4 PEOPLE (THAT WE KNOW OF!) AND IF NOT FOR BEING CAUGHT HE WOULD STILL HAVE THAT GANGSTA MENTALITY. THANKS TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, AND THE TAXPAYERS HE HAS BEEN EDUCATED. THAT BEING SAID, BEING EDUCATED DOES NOT MAKE HIM A GOOD PERSON: IT JUST GIVES HIM SKILLS TO MANIPULATE US INTO BELIEVING HE IS A “REFORMED ” PERSON. HE IS A COWARD AND A COOL BLOODED KILLER.
November 30th, 2005 at 1:16 pm
What man is able to judge. In life we have positives and negatives. You cant have one without the other. He has obviously made mistakes. But his case isn’t solid. Any body that has looked at the case can tell its not solid. We some times seem to agree with a system that has always been against us. We seem to forget that some times. The man is already in a cage. Is death necessary? He obviously has turned his life around, and is active in positive projects to make a change for the better. How many of us are active in positive projects aimed to make a change for the better? If any body can be a positive voice for the young gang members across the world, it would be a man like Stanley Williams. Not a PHD in pschology or any other degree , but one thats been threw the same trials and tribulations.
November 30th, 2005 at 4:49 pm
I trully believe that if you create something you have the ability to destroy it. Stanley Williams was on the Tavis Smiley show, he was reflective, eloquent, and extremely apologetic. To ask a man to regret everything he has done on this earth up to this point is very unfair. At the end of the day we all have regrets, I wish I never sold crack, mistreated young women and opted not to participate in highschool sports.
This confined man is not filled with malice towards most of society, so why does society hold him in contempt. If Governer “Terminator” terminates this man’s last gasp of redemption he to will have to stand before the creator and be judged. We can kill him not kill him but if we do I guarantee that the gang culture will flourish more rampant. The end of him won’t stop the green gang of “President??” Bush from wrecking shop in the middle east. Who in your eyes is worse?
Sincerly,
Overstanding our World 12/30/05
December 1st, 2005 at 10:09 am
HI my name is Genell Brown i am an 18 year of senior from Toledo i understand some of the things that you are saying but i dont agree when you say that because it is in the books that it has to be done. Because there are a lot of other people that are on death row that havent and probably wont be killed for what they are done. There are a lot of other people that havent done what Tookie has dont to keep young people like my self out of the gang life. Yes it is true that he is one of the founders of the crips, he killed them 4 people, but who else can you name that is on death row that has at least tried to keep others from making the same decisions that they have made. Who else do you know that isnt on death row that even pretends that they care what happens to the young people these days. Most adults just think that we young african americans are all nothing but thugs and gang members. I know for a fact that i dont belong to either of those catagories. I think that people that are in those catagories shouldnt be i dont believe in that type of life. I would never even be friends that is invovled in that life style. I am a young african american student that loves life, but like others i have made mistakes. We need more people like Tookie Williams to help save young people these days because it doesnt seem like anyone else cares.
December 1st, 2005 at 10:24 am
I have just read some of the comments that you people have been writing and i think that it is a shame how many of you have some much hate in your hearts none of you can call yourself gods child because god has taught some of us that forgiveness is key i am only 18 years old and i know that. All of you that are saying that he should and will die should go and take a VERY good look in the mirror think about all that things that you have done in your lifetime think about how many times a year or month you have dont something to keep young people or your own kids from being in gangs or just to do the right thing when it comes to drugs and alcohol. You speak of all the wrong that Stanley Tookie Williams has done like you have never done anything in your life. Nobody has the right to tell someone else that they have no right to be a live that they dont deserve to live that you are better then they are because when it comes down to it nobody is perfect. Stanley Tookie Williams is at least tring to fix what he has done. And no i am not saying what he has done is right but think about it he has been in jail since what 1970 something. That is almost 40 years. None of you can say that him sitting there isnt a constant reminder of what he has done he is in there thinking about what he has done for almost 40 years. You people are saying that in 40 years you wont feel bad for the things that you did in life or the things that you should have done. Like i said i am 18 there are things that i did 2 weeks ago that i wish that i could take back but i guess all of you people are to PERFECT for that to happen.
December 1st, 2005 at 11:58 am
To Julie First of all like I said in the first comment I made I said that if Tookie had not gone to prison then most of these children would be dead. Children don’t listen to people that never been in the same situation as them, they listen to people that understand. So like I said if Tookie had not killed four people and gone to jail then where would some of these children be in Jail, in the Hospital or maybe even dead? I know a lot of people that were, and still are in gangs. Some of them are just in the gang just to ACT HARD. I live in Indianapolis and there are gangs out here and not just Crips, Gs, VLs, and Bloods. I think people should stop criticizing Tookie because he is trying to turn his life around.
December 1st, 2005 at 4:07 pm
To all that are unhappy with Tookie’s impending execution: Pretend for a few moments that Tookie is white and that his four murder victims were black instead of white and asian. You’ll feel better.
December 1st, 2005 at 5:50 pm
the gentleman who wrote this must be either sick or naive to think that thwe death penalty is just..why not rehabiliate and give another chance..so you believe in eye for eye huh? that’s the reason why we are mamed and blind..
December 1st, 2005 at 6:12 pm
SHANJAE, GIVE ME A BREAK! FIRST OFF HE HASN’T BEEN IN PRISON FOR 40 YEARS. DO SOME RESEARCH! I DON’T BELIEVE IN THE DEATH PENLTY I BELIEVE IN CONSICENCES. HE BROKE THE LAW PLAIN AND SIMPLE. IF HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN PRISON HE WOULD MORE THEN LIKELY BE DEAD SHOT BY A REVIVAL GANG MEMBER. YOUNG PEOPLE WILL DIE REGARDLESS OF HIS GOOD BEHAVIOR IT DOESN’T MATTER. WE ALL HAVE CHOICES AND HE CHOOSE TO KILL 4 PEOPLE. YOU MADE A CHOICE TO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE GANGSTA LIFE OF THUGERY, GOOD FOR YOU YOU MADE A CHOICE RIGHT? I AM SO SICK OF PEOPLE HIDING BEHIND THE ” BORN AGAIN” CHRISTIAN CRAP! GOD SHOULD BE IN US FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE! IT’S NOT SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE OUT AT OUR CONVENECE! I KNOW THAT GOD PUT US HERE FOR A REASON AND IT IS UP TO US TO DO THE WORK HE PUT US HERE FOR. STANLEY BROKE NOT ONLY THE LAW BUT ONE OF THE TEN COMAMENTS! NOW HE MUST PAY THE PRICE. THE GOOD WORK HE HAS DONE WILL BE HIS REDEMPTION.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:00 pm
If Mr. Williams is truly repentant and renounces all gang affiliation, why has he not “debriefed” prison officals concerning gang activities in the California Prison System? Why has he not come forward with other crimes he committed while he was an active member of the Crips. Has he made statements concerning his own son’s coviction for murder? Of all the books he has published and sold have any of the proceeds been given to the victims’ families?
I am convinced upon reviewing the evidence presented in court, the testimony provided by “most” of the witness and accomplises and Mr. William’s ownership of the Shotgun used in the commission of the crimes, Mr Williams is guilty of the murders. His arguments refuting testimony and challenging the prosecutions case are with out merit. He belongs in Prison. The only question I have is the person who shot Mr. Owens during the 7-11 robery also shot the store’s video monitor…not the camera. Was there no video tape?
I do not support the death penalty in any instance and those who quote scripture while calling for a man’s death scares me a bit.
I would like to see Governor Swartzenegger grant Mr Williams clemency not because of Mr. williams post-incarceration acts, but because it is wrong to kill.
I would also like to see Mr. Williams accept culpability for these murders he was clearly involved with. In addition, I would also like to see Mr. Williams accept resonsibility for any other bad acts he has committed.
December 1st, 2005 at 7:25 pm
tookie do not deserve to die after what the white man did back in the day feel me.
December 1st, 2005 at 8:33 pm
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 2nd, 2005 at 1:21 am
You want the TRUTH people? Listen to the skycaptain!!
December 2nd, 2005 at 12:30 pm
DID BASTERD DID. RIHGT ON SKYCAPTIAN
December 4th, 2005 at 11:19 am
THIS HAS REALLY UPSET ME THAT ALL THIS ATTENTION HAS BEEN SPENT ON THIS MAN WHAT ABOUT THE VICTIMS. IN OUR WORLD WE ARE TO FAST TO FORGET THE ONES THAT ARE NOT HERE TO BE HEARD. I CAN NOT BELIEVE THAT A CONVICTED KILLER CAN EVEN MAKE A PENNY FOR A BOOK I KNOW I WOULD NOT SPEND THE MONEY ON A CHILDRENS BOOK FOR MY KIDS THAT A CONVICTED MURDERER WROTE. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I DO NOT CARE WHAT HE HAS DONE SINCE HE HAD BEEN ON DEATH ROLL. WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT THIS MAN DID BEFORE THEN HE HAD A TRIAL AND WAS SENTENCE TO DEATH. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IS THIS NOT WHY WE HAVE A JUDGE A JURY AND A SYSTEM THAT GIVES APPEALS AFTER APPEALS I DON’T THINK A GOV. SHOULD EVEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO STEP IN THIS A ELECTED OFFICIAL WHO MAY NOT MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE BECAUSE OF VOTES. AND WHAT IS THIS WHEN STARS GET IN THE MIDDLE OF IT SNOOP DOG PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK. WHILE RESEARCHING SOME OF THIS I FOUND LITTLE INFORMATION ON PEOPLE TRYING TO HELP THE FAMILIES OF THESE VICTIMS AND THAT IS SO SAD. I FEEL EVERYONE HAS THERE OWN THOUGHTS AND SOME DO NOT AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENILTY MY SUGGESTION TO YOU IS GET MORE INVOLVED IN REMOVING IT FROM YOUR STATE. I FEEL THIS MAN NEEDS TO BE PUT TO DEATH HE HAS HAD ALOT OF YEARS THAT THE VICTIMS DIDN’T. IT IS TIME FOR HIM TO MET HIS MAKER WHOM EVER THAT IS.
MILLS
FROM INDIANA
December 5th, 2005 at 9:12 am
All this attention being given Williams by the NAACP, etc. is nothing more than an effort to slam-dunk the ‘Hunkie’ society. The pound the fact Willaims hasn’t apologized for his crimes of multiple murders. He thinks that by not doing so gives hims claims of innocence credibility. It’s nothing more than a ‘Wolf Ticket’ he’s attempting to pull off. And he, as-well-as those self-serving pundits to get him free of the death penality, are well advised of the definition of ‘wolf ticket.’
December 5th, 2005 at 11:28 am
tookie williams must die i have been doing a report on him and he was payed to murder those innocent people TOOKIE MUST GO!!!!!!
December 5th, 2005 at 11:55 am
We are not God and should not b the one to decide who lives and who dies. Obviously he didn’t do it if he is still saying he is not guilty even though he is about to die. I think the deision should be left to God when Tookie should die. Maybe he’s being focused on too much to find the real killer. He has proved himself as a diffrent person. Let Tookie Williams live! Thank U
December 5th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
I hate the idea that we live in a world where we kill each other.The subject on the death pently makes me sick,but Mr. Tookie has done some really insane and evil violent shit in his life !!!!!! And has created a gang that is full of evil,that kill people ever day.I say fry the fucker.He is a perfect canidate,a real peice shit
December 6th, 2005 at 12:15 am
Chanel, you must be a very good looking lady… Because you are real dumb! Your quote: “Obviously he didn’t do it if he is still saying he is not guilty even though he is about to die.” OBVIOUSLY!!!
December 6th, 2005 at 4:04 pm
I keep hearing this argument that we cant give life so we shouldnt take it
well, so what there is crime and there is punishment, williiams is being punished for killing 4 people thats 4 lifes, he only has one so how about this insted of killing 4 people to make his life better why didn’t he just kill him self, because he is selfish. so back to the original point and this is all i have to say render unto god that wich is gods and render unto ceaser that wich is ceasers, and know we render williams unto god for williams belongs to god lets give him back.
December 6th, 2005 at 6:33 pm
Let the truth be told and Mr. Williams victims will be set free. The man was convicted by his own peers and the evidence demonstrated his devotion towards crime and violence. To say he did not commit these crimes is beyond the truth for the gang he formed back in the early seventies. The man has a chance to show his very existence to the victims of this country how a criminal mind can set a victims torture free of the crimes committed. Rest in peace Tookie and if there is a bit of manhood left in your body, let the victims rest in peace also with your truthful admission.
Concerned for victims
December 6th, 2005 at 6:45 pm
you all should and probably will go to hell for such horrible judgement!
December 6th, 2005 at 7:20 pm
We can make the judgement because we are the human beings living in this earth. If we can kill innocent people in Iraq and calling them casualty of war, we can kill a murderer who killed his victims for the monetary value of the dollar. Let the truth be told and the man in tookie will be set free as well-eye for and eye- a good old fashioned US custom.
Concerned victims
December 6th, 2005 at 9:26 pm
I believe that this sentence should be carried out. The man has run through more than his share of appeals. Thank you for the extra tidbits you provided that other stories I’ve read have left out. What really makes me ill is that the liberal nuts want to free a killer. Maybe they can put the Tookster up in their homes to further help rehabilitate the man?
December 6th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
GREAT COMMENTS! DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE SPELLING!
December 6th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
ONLY ONE THING TO SAY, OF ALL THE TALK AND ALL THE SUPPOSED GOOD THIS TOOKIE WILLIAMS HAS DONE FROM PRISON, THERE IS ONE MAJOR PROBLEM IN ALL OF THIS, HE HAS NEVER ADMITTED TO HIS CRIMES OR ANY WRONGDOING AT ALL. TO ME THIS SIMPLY SAYS THAT HE IS STILL ASHAMED AND UNREPENTANT OF HIS SINS AND WRONGDOING. THIS ISN’T AT ALL ABOUT RACE, IT’S ABOUT AN UNREPENTANT MURDERER, WHO KILLED 4 INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT HAD FAMILIES WHO LOVED THEM! BEFORE FORGIVENESS CAN COME, YOU MUST FIRST ADMIT THAT YOU HAVE SINNED AND DONE WRONG!
December 6th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
I found your website when I was getting information about Tookie Williams. As an educated person, I like to read both sides to every story before rendering my opinion. I find your arguement very compelling. I especially like the last two paragraphs about religion and the black man taking responsibility. Tookie needs to suck it up and take his punishment like a man. He should NOT be granted clemency. How can he be redeemed when he hasn’t even admitted guilt or is even remorseful for the murders that he directly and indirectly committed?
December 6th, 2005 at 10:50 pm
You people that think that a cold blooded murderer should not have to carry out his sentence are all a bunch of idiots! why do we have laws and juries? They are here or a reason… I say Stanley “Tookie” Williams must pay for his sins and if that means death than so be it! the innocent victims didn’t get appeal after appeal; they didn’t get the chance say goodbye before their lives were snuffed out! let’s move past this and help the families get some kind of “closure” if possible.
December 6th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
The fact of the matter is that Mr Crip tookie Williams is no dam good. Gangbangers always have the built in excuse of their surroundings. I was raised in Compton, Ca. Never got in trouble or in a gang. . If Hollywood cared more for the victims of Gangbangers instead of this loser it would be a worthy cause. You reap what you sew. On being a renown author. His first book sold only over 300 copies and his second 2. His son did not read the book cause he is in San Quentin. The stupid Govenor is going to meet with his attorneys. For what this state has gone to hell in a handbag. Take care of the good citizens of this state. Where is the mourning for all the innocent people that Tookie Williams has killed. I do not mean only the four he is actually doing time for killing. I mean all the innocent people that Crips gangsters have killed in all the years since he started this stupid gang. He is going where going for a reason cause he is no dam good. If you do not agree ask yourself if you were the victim of one his crimes, if you feel sorry for him . Rot in hell you killer. Vincent
December 6th, 2005 at 11:39 pm
BRANDON! HOW SLAVE MINDED CAN YOU BE??? YOUR EITHER A HOUSE NIGGA OR A RED NECK BIGGOT! I WOULD (AND ALMOST DID) WRITE A LONG DRAWN OUT RESPONSE TO YOUR 9TH GRADE ARTICLE BUT IT’S NOT WORTH MY TIME BECAUSE EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. BUT I WILL RESPOND BY SAYING, I BELIEVE YOU NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH ON YOUR TOPIC BEFORE COMING TO YOUR CLOSED MINDED OPINIONS. THANKS
December 6th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
This goes to the inhumane person who wrote this:
“You people that think that a cold blooded murderer should not have to carry out his sentence are all a bunch of idiots! why do we have laws and juries? They are here or a reason”
How ignorant are you? Everyone knows that 1. Laws were made to be broken 2. Certain laws (particular “THE SYSTEM”) were set in place for the destruction of blacks. It’s just sad that matters like this has to happen for blacks to wake up and see that whites are and has always been very intimidated by us and they want us to think we’re something that we are far from and that’s uneducated and incapable (a whole different topic for a different day).
The #3 reason I don’t agree w/the “concerned Mom’s” statement is LOOK AT YOUR PRESIDENT LADY! If laws were made to be followed WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON IN AMERICA? Are the laws only for the blacks to follow? Because I can name several occassions where I’ve seen a white person go free for THE SAME EXACT CRIME that a Black was convicted of. Need I say more
December 7th, 2005 at 12:28 am
Talk about having a one track mind and being closed minded… Your Quote: “Everyone knows that 1. Laws were made to be broken 2. Certain laws (particular “THE SYSTEM”) were set in place for the destruction of blacks.” Are you fucking kidding me?? YOU are the destruction of your own race just by how you think! Listen to yourself, you sound pathetic. But, you have an opinion as well! Why not look to the future rather than living in the past and make a change for yourself and for your own race…
December 7th, 2005 at 12:50 am
Tookie supporter, your the idiot I was writing about! I was born in Compton, and I don’t break the law! the law is not a color issue you fucking moron! laws are put in place to keep safe the people in this country, but it’s ignorant son of a bitches like you who truely believe a Quote out of some book or movie that “laws are made to be broken” is true and it’s ignorant son of a bitches like you who help create the genocide of a race and the distruction of our society! and unless you live in a different country than I we share the same President and the same laws, you must be a bigot to bring color into it.
December 7th, 2005 at 1:25 am
I think you had some legitimate points. If you want to be taken serious consider, more fact les feeling and spellchck. Out of curiosity I finished reading your Article, essay or whatever this is supposed to be. Now, when you go to jail it is supposed to be for REHABILITATION. To pay your debt to society and do some good from behind those bars. To say he needs to do all that jazz will teach or serve as a deterrent is nuts. If a kid has nothing to hold on to then going out like a true G is the way to go. We need to punish the parents that allow this to happen to there children that being gangs. I went to La Salle ave Elementary and Horace Mann Jr. high in the early to mid 80’s these areas were an infestation of gangs. Never joined because my parents were always involved. That is for the people who feels he should die for starting the Crips. Put some parents on Death Row. We have to own up for what our kids are doing. I feel Mr. Williams would be better for the community if he were alive. Since he is such a larger than life figure for these wayward children maybe he can steer some back towards prosperity and not gangs. Wellthat is my take. I’m not downing you sir I’m just putting my two cents in. I wish you the best. BJ from AZ
December 7th, 2005 at 1:35 am
TO BJ YOUR STATMENT THAT YOU DID NOT JOIN A GANG BECAUSE YOUR PARENTS WERE INVOLVED IS EXACTLY WHAT PARENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE! FAMILY SHOULD HELP MOLD THE MIND OF A YOUNGEN NOT SOME STUPID ASS STREET THUG! HE MUST PAY HIS DEBT.
December 7th, 2005 at 12:01 pm
#66/ Who says I’m living in the past! HUH if I was living in the past I wouldn’t be sitting here reading your closed minded, uneducated, comments I’d be somewhere trying to hurt and kill the white race for revenge. I am a 30 yr old black women working on a masters in Psychology…I have no time to live in the past. It’ll kill me. However, I do learn from and acknowledge my past. And I can look at the situation and how it is today and . You really sound like a typical white person who would love for us to let it go and forget about it. But how do you forget about it when your reminded of it EVERYDAY! When blacks are still being judged by the color of their skin and not for their character. When you have a SYSTEM set in place for the young black man. NOW if you don’t believe that then you need to do your own study or just visit your local prison. The proof is in the pudding.
December 7th, 2005 at 1:32 pm
*** To Tookie Supporter - is a ‘tookie supporter’ similar to an athletic supporter? and as you are a student I have some advice -A mind is a terrible thing to waste! Your comments are irrational and emotion based and simply not factual. The website you promoted is a joke fraught with ignorant comments by sheeple that will follow whatever some liberal professor, thug rapper, or Hollyweird slut tells them to do. Don’ perpetuate the culture of victimology! Contribute don’t take, take, take!
December 7th, 2005 at 1:54 pm
Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I feel you expressed your opinions very well. For people to get upset over someone else’s opinion is very crazy to me! (Read something else) Truth hurts. The whole point is, Jesus Christ is a forgiving God but we have to accept that this world is not. Mr. Williams made his decision in life and can’t take any of his decisions back. We all have made bad decisions and which we could turn back the clock and as I will continue to live, we will continue to make mistakes. No Man is perfect only our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. So, being a part of this world, it has rules that we must live by or we must pay the consequences for the sins we have committed. That is going to have to be paid for on this side. It’s funny how Snoop Dog is rallying for Mr. Williams but in Snoop’s videos he’s throwing up gang signs…I pray for Mr. Williams because he needs it right about now. What every one of you have to remember is that NOTHING happens without permission of Christ no matter who is in “charge”. It’s a very tough situation that Mr. Williams, Arnold and the surviving members of the families that were lost. Unfortunately they seem to have been forgotten all about because Mr. Williams has reached out, “written” books, etc. It doesn’t change what he did becaue he’s still guilty of something otherwise the police wouldn’t have a record on him to help tear down his character. For those that will continue on rallying for Mr. Williams, continue on, however, why get upset with others who decide not to. Tell me something, what about those kids hanging out on the streets that can’t read Mr. Williams books because they dropped out of school to be gang members? My point, we’re spending too much time on the wrong issue. God and the law will take care of Mr. Williams. There are too many other issues that needs to be addressed. What about rallying to find homes for our sisters and brothers of Katrina?
December 7th, 2005 at 2:03 pm
Congratulations Brandon on a heartfelt and well thought out commentary.
** On my comment above I was typing so fast I left out an ‘t on don’t and a comma after contribute. Just so “SOME” people are not put off by a typo or two. It was a careless mistake (do I have to write a kiddie book so people will forgive me?).
December 7th, 2005 at 4:00 pm
I believe that Tookie is a great leader he has his faults he admits to the ones he has comitted but you can not stress something that a man has done.Of course he fell but the bible says that if u fall u may rise and get up and the bible also says that if you are looking down on someone the only reason for you to look down on him is because you are picking him back up.The death penalty is not for anyone really but it should mainly be for someone that has gone insane and who has killed and been found gulity whether it be DNA or whether it be clues that were found.Today for the first time I read Tookies book which really made me think what was afftecting my brother.No matter what you’ve said it has changed my brother and he is back in the church, not because of you but because of Tookie. Everyone has there faults like I said but they shall and can rise if they choose to do so. If we didn’t give life why shall we take it away? There is no answer to that, that could say you can take away life that you have not placed upon this side of earth. He was placed here by god so dont you think you should allow him (god) to take him away? You think about that. Im young and I understand that, I have had my share of mistakes and my share of falling but i got back up again like the song writter Donnie said. So to sum this all up Tookie had fell,Tookie has admitted,Tookie has thought about his past and is still striving for the peace of teens around the nation.How can he do what needs to be done if people like yourself is going along with a death penalty? The answer to that is the job can’t will not shall not be done if you are putting Black men down.
Please think about what I have wrote. Thank you
December 7th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
To DON’T ASK: Get an education and learn the facts of the case BEFORE you spout your IGNORANT words and thoughts!
December 7th, 2005 at 4:51 pm
the one big thing thats happening right now is black people aiming at race, but right now we are the one’s that can’t agree on this, people will never truly respect our opinions, because we don’t respect each others.
December 7th, 2005 at 5:05 pm
THIS GUY HAS NOT ADMITED TO THE CRIMES IN QUESTION PEOPLE! GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT BEFORE BLOGGING! I DON’T THINK THE COMMON STREET THUG SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH, I THINK HE SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE EVERYDAY KNOWING THE PAIN HE HAS CAUSED SO MANY PEOPLE! HE HAS NO IDEA THE PAIN HE HAS CAUSED, HE COULDN’T EVEN HELP HIS OWN SON SO I DAMN WELL DON’T WANT HIM TRYING TO HELP MINE.
December 7th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
awwww, heck - keep him alive ! the california taxpayers are sucking up the bill for each individual that’s housed in a calif penitentiary, right ? what is the going rate these days to feed & house an inmate for one year ? 35K? 40K? 45K? when you look at the state deductions of your hard earned paycheck each pay period & those figures just tick you off, think about it - they’re going to pay for one of the MANY inmates who says, “man, i’m not guilty - it was someone else.” don’t you know ? every one in there “didn’t do it” ! so keep him alive & thanks for your contributions
December 7th, 2005 at 5:07 pm
It’s a reckoning. The settlement of all accounts. Malcolm X would say that Tookies chickens have come home to roost.
December 7th, 2005 at 5:48 pm
Black America, if you continue to support people like this, we will never become the people we ought to be, and we will continue to destroy ourselves.
This is not a black/white issue, this is a RIGHT issue.
I don’t care if Tookie has written 14,000 children books. If he is redeemed, then great.
But, he sure didn’t give those people a chance to live their lives, eh? Did he give them a chance to to redeem themselves? No.
It is not for us to kill a man? Well, it is not for him to kill anyone either? But, he did it, so I say, to hell with it, we will serve him the same dish.
Stop making excuses for these men and let them get what’s coming to them!
One last question:
What if it was YOU in that 7-Eleven that night?
Think about it…
December 7th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
OK everyone…you all are a bunch of cynics who truly do not have any of the facts straight and are using the life of a human being to piss each other off. I have been personally involved in Stanley Tookie Williams’ III case since April of 2004. Yes, he was named after his father, who was named after his father, and YES Tookie is his TRUE middle name, it IS NOT a nickname! I have the 6-inch thick folder which contains the ORIGINAL court case documents from his 1981 trial, for the 4 murders which occurred in 1979, Brandon (if you are going to STRONGLY argue one side of an issue, it is and ABSOLUTE IMPERATIVE that you research ALL of the facts before publishing your opinion, otherwise you will be disrespected and discounted as someone who has no idea what they are talking about and just wanted a soap box to preach from)! Remember, these are the ACTUAL ORIGINAL court case documents that I have, which the jury used to make there decision from, the ones which were furnished to both the Defense and the Prosecution, as well as the Judge. I have seen pictures of the “exhibits” of the trial and also have copies of ALL appeals made since. For your reference, Brandon, I am a WHITE REPUBLICAN WOMAN who lives in the Bible Belt part of the Southeast in a Republican State and I am a STRONG PROPONENT for the death penalty. I have always believed in Hammurabi’s Code of “an eye for an eye”, where and when applicable. What has always enraged me, as you also stated, is the time our legal system takes to actually carry out a death sentence. HOWEVER, I KNOW FOR A FACT that Stanley Tookie Williams III DID NOT, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT commit those 4 heinous murders in 1979!!! AGAIN, just to make it EXTRA clear for you…I am personally involved in this case, only for the past 2 years, however I have ALL original documents from the trial, forgive me, copies of all originals. One little fact that might interest you: several years after the trial was over, anywhere from 11-13 years later, that would bee approximately 1992-1994, all of the witnesses, AGAIN that is EVERY SINGLE WITNESS came forward ON THEIR OWN, to Stan’s attorneys and signed affidavits stating they were coerced, bribed and threatened into testifying against Stan. I know you are SO ANGRY about Stan starting the notorious Crips gang, but I think you need a history lesson on that, as well (bet you never thought you would get it from a white republican woman?). The Crips ORIGINAL founder was Raymond Lee Washington. He founded the Crips in 1969 in order to protect his neighborhood from ACTUAL gangs who were trying to “infiltrate” and rob and commit crimes in and around his neighborhood. So, he and a bunch of his friends formed a gang called the CRIBS, no that is not a mis-spelling, they were originally the CRIBS (like what a baby sleeps in). Two years later, in 1971, Raymond meets Stan as Stan and his friends had done the same thing to protect their neighborhood, so they decided to join forces and form one big gang (the CRIPS, with a “p”, just eventually evolved). In the beginning, there were NO GUNS!!! There were not very nice things used for weapons, but it was a rival gang which first introduced guns into their constant neighborhood battles, and soon after the Crips shot back! So there you go, Brandon! Next time, before you decide to pick an issue out of thin air and start a debate on it, make sure you do your research first…..it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!! Otherwise, we might mistake you for a sleezy politician, and we don’t want to do that…..JD
December 7th, 2005 at 6:08 pm
HE HAS CHANGED HIS LIFE FOR GOOD, TELLING YOUNG ONES TO STAY AWAY FROM GANGS, DRUGS, I THINK HE’S A GOOD GUY
December 7th, 2005 at 6:10 pm
dont kill him
December 7th, 2005 at 6:14 pm
http://da.co.la.ca.us/pdf/swilliams.pdf#search=’Stanley%20Tookie%20Williams’
DISPUTE THIS!!!!
This is the court records for all of what Tookie did! This was written by the District Attorney for the City of Los Angeles.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
Not only should Stanley Williams be executed. But, let’s go one step further.
I say we eliminate ALL STREET GANGS. Let’s just round up the Crips and Bloods, the Vice Lords and Gangsta Disciples or whatever, and slaughter them all.
No, it doesn’t look good in the face of liberals. But, you know what, it sure would help our society.
And, let’s not forget about the Mexican Gangs and Ku Klux Klan.
Let’s just execute them all!! Let’s leave our society to the ones who actually want to try and make it work,
not the ones who just want to mess up everyone else’s lives.
December 7th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
To all you people who make this an issue about race, let me say this:
The white man may have done a lot of dirt back in the days of slavery and what not, but he is not the one doing it now. Black men are doing it to themselves.
The White Man may have put dope and all that other stuff in our neighborhoods, but he did not make us smoke it, now did he?
And, the White Man may have put all our ancestors under slavery, but who is putting today’s black race under slavery today?
You guessed it!
You want to defeat the evil blue-eyed devil?
Why don’t you slap around the brown-eyed devil in you first, eh?
The White people who are around today had nothing to do with what they’re great great grandfathers did.
And, you were not there when your great great grandfather was going through all that pain.
And, you mean to tell me our ancestors and civil rights leader died so that a man like Tookie can live, who did nothing for us.
Damn. MLK didn’t get an honor like this when he was in prison!
Makes you wonder, doesn’t it….
December 7th, 2005 at 6:56 pm
Bravo Hater 45!!!
JD - You “legal’ mind makes me wonder if you even have one to beging with. You are one BIG reason criminals, yes criminal not black criminal or red criminals, just criminals, inflict such pain in our society. You are an ‘excuser,’ there were NOTHING but EXCUSES in your comments. Your kind is not needed by any society, oh wait maybe Saddam needs another lawyer, I think he had a bad childhood and it was somone else that made him torture his own countrymen. YOUR KIND MAKES ME PUKE! You even make excuses for yourself ‘I’m a white republican,” BFD! Tookie is a disgrace to humanity! Funny how you never mention the victims of his rampage? They were Albert Owens, Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang, and Yee Chen Lin! Of course now you can use them to make another excuse… “they made Tookie do it,” or “It’s a known fact, because I have the original document, that ‘budda heads’ hate African-Americans or “the white guys great-great-great grandfather worked at a plant that used cotton that was picked by slaves.” DAMN I’M GOOD, I should be a lawyer. Excuse me…. I had to vomit. Ok back to the task. As you can see on this site there are many Americans that take personal responsibility seriously. AND as an aside you are probably just some hack legal aid for some left wing group that blames everyone else. So be IT!
December 7th, 2005 at 7:30 pm
TYRONE don’t betray your ignorance. Look into the trial yourself instead of the word of some Hollywood slut or two bit celebrity. Don’t make it a black/white thing…it is a good/evil thing. Don’t be like so many others who “can’t judge him” because that is a cop out (no pun intended) so they don’t have to look at their own shortcommings. I’m NOT saying that murdering is the same as anyother wrong. Be your own MAN!
December 7th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
“#
BRANDON! HOW SLAVE MINDED CAN YOU BE??? YOUR EITHER A HOUSE NIGGA OR A RED NECK BIGGOT! I WOULD (AND ALMOST DID) WRITE A LONG DRAWN OUT RESPONSE TO YOUR 9TH GRADE ARTICLE BUT IT’S NOT WORTH MY TIME BECAUSE EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN OPINION. BUT I WILL RESPOND BY SAYING, I BELIEVE YOU NEED TO DO MORE RESEARCH ON YOUR TOPIC BEFORE COMING TO YOUR CLOSED MINDED OPINIONS. THANKS
Comment by Tookie Supporter — 12/6/2005 @ 11:39 pm”
—Why should I waste time researching what has been researched for over 20+ years? Fact of the matter is Tookie the murderous will be dead in only a few days and this latest sad chapter in our black history will end. My only regret is not being able to witness the justice personally.
December 7th, 2005 at 8:38 pm
Barney your racist crap negates the power and legitimacy of your ideas!
December 7th, 2005 at 9:15 pm
Barney is that like the purple dinosauer? your nothing but a racist scum bag. your 2 cents isn’t needed here so don your white hood and crawl back under the rock you came out from!
December 7th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
again this is your opinion ,many view this case differently.
although we cant deny the people he’s hurt and the actions he’s made.
tookie did changed but i do agree he must serve for his consequences.
i am a supproter of the death penalty.and i do strongly disagree
of mr. williams being sentence to death.i believe that he should remain in jail
without any parol for life.
i have seen other cases(friends)
and most of them admit
that it does not bring them any closure
what so ever
this case to me is “colorblind”
as for others naacp
it might be a racial case
tookie has contributed to our community alot
but he has damaged it alot worse!
but he’s done what most convicts never think of and took a big step forward
in helpin
December 7th, 2005 at 11:06 pm
Superb! I cannot tell you how pleased I am to finally see an article by an African-American who DOES NOT support Williams. You were right on when you said that for blacks to be taken seriously, they must choose their battles wisely! I commend you for this article and your stance on this case! I will be back to read more!
December 7th, 2005 at 11:36 pm
Go back and read what Sunny had to say on 11/28.
Mr. Williams should thank God for capital punishment.
His redemption only came when he was placed under fear of this punishment.
He may never have found redemption had he not been sentenced to death.
Remember:
Yen-I Yang,
Tsai-Shai Chen Yang,
Yu-Chin Yang Lin,
Albert Owens.
Forget Stanley Williams.
December 8th, 2005 at 1:18 am
I live in Los Angeles and I see first hand what Tookie’s creation has done to the Black community of this town. It has destroyed it! Infact, it is so bad out here that it is almost freightening. Gangbangin is a way of life and the more dirt that you do the higher esteem you are placed in. What a warped sense of reality.
Now I am not an advocate of killing anyone. I am a peaceful person. However, I am not sure what should become of Mr. Williams’ life. I honestly feel that his execution would do far more for stopping the spread of street gangsterism than anything he could possibly say or write. Like the orignal poster of this article, I feel the youngsters would see that there are consequences to what they do if he is put to death. In this day and age most youth feel that living in jail is nothing so that alone is not a sufficiant deterrant.
Now I am a person who has seen first hand the mentality that has spawned from Mr. William’s Crips. I know gangster and killers and my knowledge of their actions makes me uneasy. I’ve had conversations with these gangsters and they have describe to me how they think. (I am origianally from the country so, I could not imagine people could see the world like these gangster do.) One guy explained to me that he enjoys killing people. He believes he is a soldier and killing people is just part of that. He is now doing 56 years in prison for robbery. I had another friend that described to me that if he kills someone and is caught and scentenced to 20 years in prison, he was 24 at the time, he could do the 20 years no problem. He would get out and still have a little life left so it wasn’t that bad. I was shocked by whatt they thought but, these guys were totally serious.
Stanley Williams is the self-admitted first major gangbanger in LA. That is his calling card. “I am Stanley “Tookie” Williams. Co-founder of the Crips.” Does that sound like the introduction of someone that is not proud of his creation? Someone that is redemed? Then the gall of Snoop Dogg to co-sign for him when he is also an admitted member of the Crips and sings their praise in his songs. How could someone possibly listen to him when gangbangin is destroying his life as well.
I am not saying that I want Mr. Williams to die however, I think that it would really get the gang member’s to think if they saw one of their OGs pay the ultimate price for his crimes.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:25 am
What is it now , about 6 or 7 days until 4 white guards walk to Tookies cell and say , ITS YOUR TIME BOY, lol , I for 1 am getting ready for the execution , i am going to have a big BBQ that day and drink some cold beer and Party and celebrate the death of this vermin , if i could get into the chamber as they pump the battery acid into the maddog niggers viens , i whould enjoy spitting in his face as ho goes to hell. FUCK HIM . i hope he burns for eternity in the hellfire of 1000 suns.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:47 am
Put that in your crackpipes and smoke it , America is sick and tired of animals like tookie, and this is only the begining , in the years to come , gangs of animalistic thugs like the crips will be delt with in the same manner. the days of the black race hiding behind slavery and using it as a shield and crutch are drawing to an end , the facts tell the truth , 80% of all homicides commited in the act of robbery are commited by blacks , 70% of all drug related killings in the United States are commited by blacks, in fact 75% of all violent crime in the USA is commited by blacks. you can not cut the tail off a monkey and exepect him to act civilized.
December 8th, 2005 at 3:42 am
If Tookie is executed it is our duty as Americans to show our governtmetn exactly what Civil Dissobidience is all about. I for one am not going to stand and watch our gov. execute a FIVE time NOble Peace Prize nominee and yet another black man. Isn’t it our Prison Systems objection to rehabilitate our criminals? Has anybody thought as to why we are the ONLY world leading nation that hasn’t abolished capital punishemt.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:05 am
excellent article i must say. very informative, specific and detailed. i share the same view. the last paragraph really is the most powerful part of it.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:42 am
I am not Mr. Williams’ judge. I lost a cousin to gang violence this past September. A cousin who refused to join this Blood/Crips crap. Refused. A hero in my sight who was willing to die for what he believed. I find it very difficult to excuse the founder of this crap. Too, too, far too many young black men are dying because of what he started. If he does live, these rebellious criminals will brag on that. That will cause them to glorify that life even more. That was interesting concerning Jesus and the sincere criminal. Let us not worry, if Mr. Williams is sincere he will receive his reward in heaven. If he is not sincere he will also receive his reward.
December 8th, 2005 at 8:44 am
Regardless of whether or not I agree with your writings, I must admit that it was very well presented. With that out of the way……first and foremost, I lost faith in this country’s justice system a long time ago. Having been a corrections officer AND having served time (all in one lifetime, mind you) I know that there are serious miscarriages of justice, and some of the infractions are so serious and ridiculous that I wonder why the bothered to have a farce of a trial in the first place. I just happen to feel that there is more than a reasonable doubt that Mr. Williams did, in fact, commit the crimes. Granted, scores of people, most innocent, have died due to gang violence, but I have personnaly known Crips that NEVER EVEN HEARD OF TOOKIE WILLIAMS until he was on television. In contrast, there are hundreds of thousands of young men and women in another country, killing and yes, dying on the orders of perhaps the most notorious gang leader of this century. By the way, the gang headquarters is on Pensylvania Ave. Granted, he wasn’t the trigger man, but he’s ultimately responsible for far more deaths than 4. By the way, the American public gave him clemency; he’s in office for another term. Should we have a death penalty? Hell yes. If there is proof beyond the shadow of doubt like you saw the clowns run in the high school shooting everyone in sight, or you saw the video of the sick bastard abducting the little girl in the parking lot, but if you execute someone based on jailhouse informant testimony, fixed juries, bad evidence or you just don’t like gangs, it makes you no better than the one you execute. This is directed specifically to White Man: the First Amendment is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? Just don’t forget that it took a gang of insurgents to win independence from an oppresive society and to win the right to voice your opinion, no matter how small your mind is. By the way, with all the murders committed by us po’ black folks, how come we’s keep missin you?
December 8th, 2005 at 10:24 am
Is Beautiful to live in a country were everybody is entitled to their own point of view. Saying that, I believe that this man is guilty of killing 4 human beings. Four human beings that the only mistake they did was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But since I’m entitled to my opinion I believe this man should not be executed. This is why; as we live in the only country on the West Hemisphere were the death penalty still legal. This man as horrible it may look for the crime he committed, has reform. Has reform to a point that is helping other people not to commit the same mistakes he did. This man should die in jail, (sentence for life with no parole). By killing this man, we are not bringing back the four people that died, by killing this man we are only satisfying our animal believe of an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Nothing good comes out by killing him. If we let him live at least he could help society reform misguided young minds.
December 8th, 2005 at 10:27 am
Your comments are right on . Innocent, give me a break. I bet there are a few Bloods out there that will give you a real story on Tookie. If anyone deserves the death penalty, it is this guy.
December 8th, 2005 at 10:52 am
our sins put jesus on a cross and he forgived us for a man to change his life around by making sure little kids don’t turn to gang violence and calling a peace treaty between the Crips and bloods and we are about to kill him we will all burn in hell for deciding this mans faith.
December 8th, 2005 at 10:59 am
John Doe, you are an idiot. His death would do so much more for his “cause” than letting the criminal live. He is going to die on the 13th and when he does I will sit back and smile in my 3 level house with a 2 car garage. I might even take a drive in my 80,000 dollar car just to let my happy emotions go. I’d come home and look at my degree on the wall and think, only if the black race were as smart as me. I don’t mean that blacks are dumb inherently, but dumb for wasted opportunities. Tookie should not be an inspiration to anyone. He lived like an animal and will die like one. For inspiration we can look back at Frederick Douglass. That should be some inspiration for all of us, not just black people. Go ahead and google him now. Read about his life if you haven’t because you dropped oput of high-school. Hopefully you can read. This Get Rich or Die Trying mentality is what is killing you all. You are your own worst enemy, yourselves and your race. You want more inspiration? I started with nothing. 3 brothers and 2 sisters. I shared a room with my brothers. We wore hand me down clothes. I went to school, courtesy of the government you continually bash, for free. Not one cent. One of my closest friends at Mighigan State was black. Same program as me. We are both doing very well financially (ie. got rich) and didnt die trying. Took a little hard work and long hours but we are there.
Tookie took the easy way out and now he is given the chance one more time to take the easy way out. He will be put to death on the 13th. Right or wrong he will be.
His clemency request is also a sham, like his entire life. Don’t let a racist like Jesse Jackson, or a racist organisation like the NAACP fill your minds with ignorant thoughts. They look at this as a way to “beat whitey”, when all they are doing is beating themselves. Tookie gives less than 2 shits about the kids today evidenced by him making money on a few books the NAACP bought from him that he didnt even write. He wants to extend the appeals process and someday make it out of jail a free man. Yeah, they say life without parole but he maintains his innocence and says he will fight for his freedom till the day he dies. I have a feeling that his struggle will come to an end the following Wednesday.
Oh, I say blacks because that is what they are. Just as I am not a “European American”, I am white.
December 8th, 2005 at 11:34 am
peolpe only hattin because he hade bad dayz back in the day. i dont think he shoud die because of were he grew up because black people dont have alot of thing like white when they grow up to they have to deal with their stuff the way they have to and if he dies it not goin to make a difference whats done is done it cant change but he changed alot of kids life and i think that he should be able to live because of what he did. he did bad things and he did good thing and he is only getting appreciated for the bad.STOP HATTIN BITCHES
December 8th, 2005 at 11:41 am
i think your innicont because why would u waste your time on makin books for other kids so there not in your position and you should at least live even though your in jail but at least you will be linving they really shouldn’t kill you but the publisgheed your boook they make no sence hopefully they vote innonct
December 8th, 2005 at 11:47 am
John Jay, you should run for president. I’ll get back to you later. I feel I must clarify my position. There were so many flaws in Mr. William’s trial that at the very least, a stay should be granted until he can be retried. If the evidence proves that he is guilty, by all means, execute him. If not, let’s make it right is a justice system that is stacke against African Americans to begin with. Back to John Jay, if I hear “some of my best friends are black” one more time, I think I’ll puke. Do you really think that your one black friend qualifies you to tell me who I should look to for inspiration? Please. I’m glad that you have a job that allows you to afford an 80K car, because if it had not been for racist organizations like the NAACP, you would have made that money not on a job, but owning someone like mee. By the way, the taxes collected from the sales of Mr. William’s books, along with my tax dollars, probably paid for your education. So if and when Mr. Williams is executed, look on the wall of your 3 level house at your diploma and say, “thank-you, Mr. Williams. Had the government paid for your education instead of mine, that might have been me executed instead of you,” and be on your way.
December 8th, 2005 at 11:48 am
I liked this article. Well written and well reasoned. You hit the nail on the head when you say that he should be judged according to his crime and sentenced fairly. To wave the race card demeans the crime and certainly the character of those rallying to the cry of “Free Tookie”. Put simply, black Americans should be outraged at those that say Tookie’s sentence is being carried out because of his race. SHame! He is a criminal first, black second.
December 8th, 2005 at 11:53 am
he should not die cause what ever he wrote is the true and that should give him another chance.
December 8th, 2005 at 12:10 pm
JC….C’mon. The tax dollars on a few hundred books couldn’t even buy you gold teeth. I’d imagine that if you looked at how much it costs to keep this CRIMINAL alive you would eat your words. I got an education like thousands before me did for free. Tax dollars and merit scholarships did take care of that. I have also given back through taxes nearly half of my earnings last year. Toatl YTD I have given almost 30K back to the government who paid for my education. How much has this murdering bastard given back of the 50K it costs to put a roof over his head. You are arguing for me now you ignorant prick JC. I’d tell you to go back to school if you already dropped out and then get a job, but the world needs ditch diggers too.
December 8th, 2005 at 12:56 pm
THE CLOCK IS TICKING TOOKIE AND NEXT WEEK WE WILL HEAR YOUR CLICK ONE LAST TIME. The focus for all persons beleiving his innocence is the this answer- 4 dead victims and 1 guily party-. If his redemption brought forth any good was his own guilt since the GANGSTA Lifestyle is killing off your enemies not handing out cookies to thy neighbors. His own words admit forming the Crips Gang plus him being the leader and the main purpose of a leader is to kill to show power plus instill fear on any opposition. So to any sane person who has a mind, Tookie did murder his victims-PERIOD-STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIS CRIMES. TOOKIE WILL WALK THROUGH THE SHADOW OF DEATH AND HIS VICTIMS WILL AS THE QUESTION “WHY THEM”-. TOOKIE, ADMIT YOUR GUILT SO WE CAN START THE I TOLD YOU SO BLOGGING AND THE NAY SAYERS THE EXCUSE BLOGGINGS. BE A REAL MAN LIKE YOUR WERE BACK THEN BROTHER.
Concern for victims
December 8th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
John Jay, I think if you looked up the word “ignorant” in the dictionary, there would be an 8×10 glossy of you. First, I am a college educated owner of two successfull businesses-a computer consulting firm and a newspaper. It’s not like I have to give you my resume’, but I just wanted you to know how I have the time to respond to your bullshit. Where do YOU find the time to think this mess up? Let’s stick to the issues: if the justice system is to work, it has to be fair. Tookie Williams is not the first person that was convicted and sentenced to death under suspicious circumstances, and unfortunately, he won’t be the last. My position has been, and still is, take him back to trial and do it right this time. We have made many advances in criminal forensic technology that were not available at the time of Mr. William’s trial and subsequent sentencing. (let me know if I need to use smaller words) Let’s prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is innocent, OR GUITLY!!! Then can we allow his sentence to be carried out with a clear conscience. If you can’t, or refuse to, see that point of view, then let’s just kill him and all the rest of the so-called gangbangers, as they are the offspring of what he helped create. While we’re at it, let’s kill all Germans for what Hitler did, all Iraqis for what sadaam did, (oh, my bad, we’re doing that), and kill all white people for what the Klan did. To all other readers, I don’t advocate this, but this is the line of thought that John Jay follows. Personal attacks on me boosts my argument that there are some people, unfortunately, that let their LEARNED bigoted behavior (it’s not genetic, thank God)dictate their attitudes, beliefs, and sadly, their actions. Just give the man a fair shake. If he did it, it will be proven, but if he didn’t, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience. By the way, I have dug ditches, and as long as it paid the bills and fed my family at the time, I was the best ditch digger out there. I was fortunate to go to school, get an education and not necessarily do better, but do different. I really wanted to step down to your level and verbally assault you, but I’ve never been down to where you are, and seem to be most comfortable.
December 8th, 2005 at 1:31 pm
206 years and counting of appeals. Still has not been overturned. I don’t know if you understand what the word ignorant means JC. You are unaware or uninformed. That pretty much sums up the word. I wouldn’t call that a verbal attack on you. You continuously prove my point you being ignorant. Anywho….here are the real FACTS:
Some parts are out of chronological order. I hope that a correspondence colloege grad can figure it all out….lol
On April 18, 1980, the trial court granted Williams’ motion to substitute his hand-picked attorney, Joseph Ingber, as attorney of record in place of Gerald Lenoir.
On January 21, 1981, the jury trial commenced and on March 13, 1981, the jury returned guilty verdicts of four counts of first-degree murder and two counts of robbery. The jury also found the special circumstance allegations of robbery murder and multiple murder to be true. Lastly, a jury OF HIS PEERS found true the special allegations that defendant Williams personally used a shotgun and that a principal was armed with a firearm.
On March 17, 1981, both parties having rested without presenting evidence at the penalty phase, argument was presented on behalf of the People and defendant Williams as to whether the penalty should be death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. Following arguments and instructions of law by the Court on this issue, the jury, on March 18, 1981, returned a verdict of death as to each of the charged first-degree murders
On April 15, 1981, defendant Williams’ motions for a new trial and for modification of the verdict and findings imposing the death penalty were heard by the Court and denied. The trial court then sentenced Williams to death on counts 1, 2, 3 and 7.
On April 11, 1988, on automatic appeal to the California Supreme Court, in the cases of People v. Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 21977, and In re Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 23806, consolidated under Case No. S004365, and published at (1988) 44 Cal.3d 1127, the imposition of the death penalty was affirmed and defendant Williams’ first habeas petition was denied following an EVIDENTIARY hearing.
On January 18, 1989, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ second state habeas petition in Case No. S008526.
On that same date, January 18, 1988, defendant Williams filed his first federal habeas petition in the United States District Court in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW. The district court held that petition in abeyance while defendant Williams returned to the California Supreme Court with his unexhausted claims.
On April 11, 1994, following another evidentiary hearing, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ third state habeas petition in Case No. S011868, published at (1994) 7 Cal.4th 572.
On June 21, 1995, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ fourth state habeas petition in Case No. S039285.
On December 21, 1988, defendant Williams returned to federal court and, following an evidentiary hearing, the United States District Court denied defendant Williams’ amended habeas petition in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW, and published its order at (1998) 41 F.Supp.2d 1043.
On December 17, 1999, defendant Williams’ subsequent Rule 60(b) motion to reopen the judgment was denied, and the order was published at (1999) 1999 WL 1320903.
On September 10, 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied defendant Williams’ direct appeal and Rule 60(b) motion in Case Nos. 99-99018 and 00-99001, published at (2002) 306 F.3d 665.
On September 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals amended the opinion and denied defendant Williams’ petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2004) 384 F.3d 567.
On February 2, 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denied defendant Williams’ subsequent petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2005) 396 F.3d 1059.
Finally, on October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied defendant Williams’ petition for writ of certiorari in Case No. 04-10500.
As this historical accounting proves(available to you the public), Williams has benefited from a detailed and exhaustive review of all of his legal claims and each court has affirmed the guilty verdicts and affirmed the death sentence. In doing so, our courts, both state and federal, have given appropriate and serious consideration to Williams, consideration which Williams so violently denied each of his victims.
Now, JC, because of ME you are no longer ingnorant to the numerous times he has been in court and the numerous times he has been sentanced to DEATH. Anything else I can teach you today?
December 8th, 2005 at 1:47 pm
Your first and last paragraph tells me everything I need to know about your education J.J. Please do not attempt to educate ANYONE again in life.
December 8th, 2005 at 1:48 pm
FINALLY!!!! You are backing up your argument with facts instead of personal opinions, which is all I wanted. If you really read my posts, you would find that not only am I not opposed to the death penalty, I am also not opposed to Mr. Williams execution. Now, if only the rest of the free world would do their research and base their opinions on fact, such as you did, the justice system just might work. (Did I ever have you in one of my classes?)
December 8th, 2005 at 1:56 pm
Wow! This is great. Hey JC….What college education taught you spelling? What a freakin’ joke. This guy is like all the other clowns that are on death row. More times than not, you CAN judge a book by the cover. We spend more money per “pond scum” creep per year to house than some honest people make trying to earn an honest living. It’s apparent how polarized this society has become. This poor, unfortunate individual has had his day in court and the justice system has given him numerous opportunities to appeal the decision. The consequence he faces is NOT for his supposed redemption, IT IS FOR HIS FACTUAL CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
Brandon, if Mr. Williams was not the co-founder of the crips would you have the same opinion in regards to this case? If we take co-founder of the crips away from his name and look at the facts of the case he would be an innocent man. However, if we are going to sentence him to death he needs to be charged with being the co-founder of the crips and charged with murders that the crips are responsible for or crimes he has committed.
John Jay, this is not a black or white issue but an innocent or guilty issue. America and the justice system need to have a blind eye to race when it comes to looking at an individual and they need to focus on the facts and evidence. For example, in Texas three weeks ago, Ruben Cantu was executed for a murder he didn’t commit. After his execution, the eyewitness stated he lied about Mr. Cantu being the shooter and the actually killer admitted he allowed Mr. Cantu die for his crime. In order to execute a person, there has to be rock solid evidence.
I am an African American, and I feel everybody has right to his or her opinion. So, I’m not going to commitment negatively or call you out of your name, because race in America will continue to be on going battle.
But I will point out blacks and whites both have a high poverty rate, and crime rates compared to any other race. I’m not going to make excuses for blacks or whites because every body regardless of race is responsible for their life decisions and outcomes. Also, there are many blacks and whites that have luxury homes, expensive cars, and degree(s). And there are black and whites that have the mentality “Get Rich or Die Trying”.
John Jay, don’t let what you see in the media and rap videos stereotype blacks because we are all different and all have a different state of mind.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:09 pm
Well put, Dee.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:19 pm
Thanks, I try to be open mided and view the world as a colorless society
December 8th, 2005 at 2:21 pm
A little more history. There were 11 of 18 that were convicted of war crimes (NAZI Germans) that were sentenced to death. They were hung. I can get their names if you would like to send their families Christmas cards. You seem to be simpathetic to convicted killers. Saddam is not far off.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:39 pm
Just let Tookie out of prison. He feels really bad about the four people he KILLED. All American-Africans are victims and they deserve our money and special programs. It is the White man’s fault that he took that shotgun and blasted holes in four other humans for $220.00. Just let him out so he can start a new gang. Forgive and forget, especially if it was not your family that got killed.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:51 pm
All of your comments to me are correct. I agree, this is not a black or white issue but a guilty and not guilty issue. Isincerely apologize for any comments that have put anyone down, yes, including you JC. This kind of argument gets my blood boiling and I was merely putting a different spin on some race issues that were already present in this board. I am merely expressing my opinions and I should reserve those for other situations. However the facts have been put in front of a court many times, you can count how many above, and each time the same verdict has come out. No hard feelings towards anyone by my previous posts, but this man does not deserve another Thanksgiving meal, birthday or other holiday. He denied that of his victims. His next fancy celebration of life should be his last meal. Faced with death a desperate man will use desperate measures.
JC, I think I should have been directing my anger over this upon some others here! I can tell now you have more than half a brain. Well put also Dee
December 8th, 2005 at 2:52 pm
Dee, it’s refreshing to read a post that deals with the issue at hand instead of venting and spitting racist views on a message board because they either are afraid to do it in public, or they don’t actually believe in the nonsense they are saying. I think I’ll limit my conversation to just you.
December 8th, 2005 at 2:54 pm
Thank you, John Jay…..I think…….
December 8th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
hi i think that he
December 8th, 2005 at 3:25 pm
You’re welcome, I think too.
I read this on another blog:
He is worth more to society dead. The message from the Tookie-philes is that you can kill innocent people and be a star. An execution says you can kill innocent people and pay the price.
SNAP
December 8th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
One thing about race that does however pertain to this clemency debate. Would Jesse Jackson be pleading for clemency had it have been a white man convicted of killing 4 innocent people? I would imagine not. Even worse, would this debate be going on if a white guy was convicted of killing a black man. And please do not respond by saying that the white man would not even be in this situation in the first place. This is hypothetical. I seriously doubt it. Do any black people on here actually think that OJ was innocent? You are all crazy. But because he is black you have to rally around him and call it a victory for black people? That is insane. I think that whoever runs this blog has balls and uses his mind since he is a black man and is in support of the correct decision. Kill Whitey
December 8th, 2005 at 5:15 pm
12/8 Ricardo, I guess ya a Spick, with a fucking name like Ricardo, Ricky, my ass. Anway, what
is this civil disobedience crap ya are speaking about. Down here in the Sunny South, we have a
permanent cure for civil disobedience, 1. a 120lb German Shepherd dog with big teeth gnawing on a
sorry ass pockets 2. a 4 inch fire hose spewing forth water enough to blow windows outt yo car
3. a big ole redneck Cop about 250 lbs. totin a .12 ga. Remington 8 shot pump loaded with 00
Buckshot, ready to fill your ass with a pound of buckshot, just cause he likes to hear the gun
go ” boom” 3. big ole boys wearing white robes and masks, chewing RedMan,toting firearms, Rebel flags, and walking or riding Harleys, cause they like the sound, but, they mean business, so they
carry long hemp ropes, ready to do just whatever comes naturally when they see a Nigger and a tree with long limbs. Barney
December 8th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
WHY SO MUCH HATE BARNEY? DIDN’T YOUR MOTHER BREAST FEED YOU? POUR SICK SOUL. I CAN’T HELP BUT WONDER WHY PEOPLE THINK IT’S OK TO BE THE FOUNDER OF THE CRIPS OR ANY OTHER GANG AND BE PARDONED? WHEN HITLER CREATED A “GANG” HE KILLED AN ENTIRE RACE OR GROUP OF PEOPLE, COMPLETE GENOCIDE! BUT THIS GUY WHO PROUDLY AKNOWLEDGES HE STARTED THE CRIPS ISN’T PUT IN THE SAME CATAGORY? HE TOO HAS CREATED A GENOCIDE AGAINIST OUR RACE AND WE WANT TO SAVE HIM? WHATS UP WITH THAT?????
December 8th, 2005 at 6:20 pm
There’ll be thousands of happy white folks cheering the day when the needle is given to killers like Dave Westerfield and Scott Peterson. Go Death Penalty!
December 8th, 2005 at 6:23 pm
The last few comments are equally as lame as the proponant’s and bible toting miscrient’s view of this. It has now become a circus (I,too, am a clown) of people who could better well spend their time on more productive purposes, just as Tookie should have…..
December 8th, 2005 at 7:02 pm
To paraphrase Chris Rock, I’m not saying that O.J. did it, but if he did, I can understand.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:10 pm
My Father was murdered friday night in cold blood at his store, he was shot 3 to 4 times,his murderers wanted more money. The people that are involved are two blacks and they have been caught. The death penalty is legitimate, I am not saying these people are going to hell on the contrary I hope they accept Christ and go to heaven as my Father who believed in Christ. However, while on earth they still committed a crime, and took my father away, I am 18 years old my youngest brother is 10 how will he grow up without a dad? I am a minority and I am sick of filthy sympathy cases, ‘its my environments fault’ that is not only disgusting but pathetic. My father was a migrant worker who picked fruits in California, Mr Tookie’s state, he started his own LEGAL business and prospered for 26 years until two drug-addicts who are probably on welfare will blame their environment for their horrid crimes. There is a huge problems with Hispanics and Blacks , I am Hispanic and it has nothing to do with racism, only facts. The facts are that two minorities commit the most crimes, yet groups like the Asian and Arab minorities are a lot more succesful, so it has nothing to do with being a minoritiy. These issues must be adressed plainly and truthfully and we as minorities need to stop hiding behind the veil of ignorance that the Democratic party has put us in. I have always been against racism but now its hard not to stereotype people who dress and listen to rap songs that talk about ‘busting a cap on someones ass’, I am not racist just prejudice, prejudice against anyone who embraces the filthy hip-hop culture, white,black, asian or hispanic.
December 8th, 2005 at 7:47 pm
Just imagine for a moment if we lived in a society like indonesia… They hang you for being in possession of drugs in thier country!! They believe it breaks up families… All you opponets of the death penalty should sacrifice one of your loved ones for being so naive. Maybe we should learn from other countries that dont mess around with liberal jackasses like we have here in the states. Grow up people, this guy is a piece of shit and should be discarded just like the rest of the cold blooded coward killers in this country! If Arnie makes the wrong decision, he should be put to death as well for not standing up for whats right!!
December 8th, 2005 at 7:54 pm
Time to make things interesting…..How can some of you be so perfectly willing to let the decision on someone’s life be decided by someone who wasn’t even born in this country?
December 8th, 2005 at 8:06 pm
Christian I am so sorry to hear about your loss.
I am sad that so much effort and thought is being wasted on an individual like Mr. Williams, and so little is being said or done for his victims or other victims of crime like your father.
Remember the names of his victims:
Yen-I Yang,
Tsai-Shai Chen Yang,
Yu-Chin Yang Lin,
Albert Owens.
As to the innocence of Stanley Williams, his own lawyers don’t believe in that. That is why the appeal for clemency is being based on his supposed “redemption” and not on his innocence.
There are wrongly convicted individuals in prison, Williams isn’t one of them.
December 8th, 2005 at 9:55 pm
The blood of thousands upon thousands of human lives; every race, creed, and color is on the hands of Mr. Williams, being those directly and indirectly killed by gang violence as a result of his personal greed and need for power and the empire built by those bloody hands, namely the ‘Crips’. Whether he did or did not pull the trigger that snuffed out the lives of four innocent human beings, he is still responsible. If he had even attempted to make amends to the families of the four victims, if even to say ‘I am sorry that as a direct result of the Crips, the gang I founded, your family members are dead’, I would have more respect for him. Even in his “Apology” letter, he identifies himself as the ‘Surviving Crips Co-Founder’ as with a smug sense of pride.
I wonder if all the African-Americans out there who strongly support Tookie Williams based simply on the fact that he now renounces gang violence and co-authors children’s books as a form of personal redemption, would do the same for professed Racist Skin-Head John Edward Butler who brutally murdered Dan Shersty and Lin “Spit” Newborn simply for the fact that one was black and one was white and they were friends, if he writes his redemption books:
Skinheads and Drugs
Skinheads and the Abuse of Power
Skinheads and Self-Esteem
Skinheads and Your Neighborhood
I wonder if they’ll be supporting Butler’s appeals of innocence and protesting his walk down death row.
December 8th, 2005 at 9:56 pm
Kill him place him on the floor and shoot him twice in the back Please thank u and have a nice day
December 8th, 2005 at 11:44 pm
In order to keep the peace in the LA area you dont think that they should give him life. The reason being is crip gang members have voiced there plans if Tookie is executed. I just want to hear your guy’s standpoint on that part. Im a senior in a multicultural class an knowing how other people feel about this would help me
December 8th, 2005 at 11:51 pm
I think if we base our decision on fear then we lose.
December 8th, 2005 at 11:55 pm
I say fuck the crips and whatever they have voiced!! We should not be scared of bitch ass punks like them!! Fuck em all!!
December 9th, 2005 at 3:25 am
Excellent argument! Society should not gloat over the execution of an individual. It is an awesome and terrible ordeal for all. However, it is the law of the land and we have a duty to protect those less able to protect themselves: kids who are subject to gang violence, families in hotel rooms, and poor working “stiffs” who have to work the midnight shift at 7-11. Tookie’s life is not worth more than any of his victims, so lets not try and pretend that a “has been,” “washed up,” actor like Mike Farrell has any special understanding of the problems in society. He should know this by now: his liberal “politically correct” stances still haven’t gotten him any work in Hollywood for over twenty years. “Sorry Tookie, God have mercy on your soul, but it is time for you to go!” Peter
December 9th, 2005 at 3:52 am
This is like people cheering on a 450 lb fat man that loses 200 lbs– if the fat bastard woulnd’t have been a pig in the first place we wouldn’t celebrate. Or the heroin addict– cheering because he finishes rehab– we would’t be celebrating if he wouldn’t have screwed up in the first place– Same with “dookie” Williams. If he wouldn’t have started the Crips who cares what he would have to say about gangs— he started this problem for himself and just because he says oops me mess up doesn’t mean we should be happy. The only reason he appears to do good is because he did a whole lot of bad. Percentage wise if we release him from prison he will be back. He will fry–speaking of frying i think i am going to take my free from jail (because i do’t hurt other people)ass and make me some bacon. Dookie would have sold more books if he wouldn’t have put his criminal face on the cover. Plus he sounds like a bitch in real life.
December 9th, 2005 at 8:49 am
I hope that a black man is the one to send him six feet under.
And, I sometimes wish for a stricter, harsher justice system.
Other countries don’t have this problem.
Why?
Because they don’t deal with jackasses like this.
If he was innocent, understandable.
But, one thing is for sure. If justice really was served, the Crips would never exist in this country. They would have destroyed them, the Bloods and every other gang like Nazis.
Say, there is an idea.
I’m not condoning racism. I don’t like it at all. However, if I few men in white robes want to shoot up some boys in blue and red rags, who are just killing other innocent blacks, I would probably look the other way.
I’d take seeing a Blood or Crip hanging from a tree than a little black woman who does her studies all the time die by their hands.
And, don’t you dare say it hasn’t happened.
Cause it has. There was a case when a Crip killed a little girl.
He said it was by accident. He was trying to kill the Blood standing behind her.
Kill Em All, and let’s start with the head of the snake!!!
December 9th, 2005 at 9:23 am
Does anyone get it, the man is a murderer. Should Charles Manson too be unleashed on society? God is the ultimate judge, so what, society should let all the killers go free and let God sort it out at the end? Would you love to have Jack the Ripper back living in your neighborhood? What about pedophiles, would you let them work in the schools with your children? If we let this killer out, we have to let them all out, because hey, haven’t they all been rehabilitated?
December 9th, 2005 at 9:39 am
Nobody is letting this guy out MPG. The descision is whether or not to let him live. Life in prison withour possibility of parole. Let him die. Tax payer need only to pay for one more meal for the fool and a nice burial.
If we let this man live a) there is always the risk of an escape. I don’t believe he would do it. I do think he is a changed man in his heart, but that still does not excuse his actions 26 years ago. Just because he says he feels he has redemtion (he doesn’t) does not mean he is entitled to a stay of execution. This is reserved for people who have been wronged by the system or for people who have a new trial etc. He will die this wWednesday no matter what any celebrity does.
b) It costs upwards of 50K to house an inmate for one year in a maximum security prison. I say get it done and move on.
I am going to make myself a nice meal on Wednesday to celebrate my life and finding better things to do with my time than take the lives of innocent people for $250.
Good ridance to bad rubbish
December 9th, 2005 at 10:11 am
This started years ago with 2 idiots satisfying their most primal urges with no sense of responsibility– basically 2 monkeys humping. Big mistake– 9 months later out comes Dookie. He is a thief and a murderer– time to send dookie down the toilet–that’s what should have happened in the first place if his sorry ass dad had worn a condom like most responsible people who don’t want kids.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:47 am
I THINK THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD JUST STOP AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THE EFFECTS THAT WILL COME IF TOOKIE IS KILLED. YES HE IS CO-FOUNDER OF THE CRIPS YES HE MAY HAVE ROBBED SOMEBODY AND YES HE MAY HAVE MADE OTHER MISTAKES IN HIS LIFE. BUT WHAT WOULD KILLIND HIM SOLVE. HIS FOLLOWERS ARE STILL THERE. AND THEY JUST MAY RUN A MOCK IF YOU KILL HIM. I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT HE HAS CHANGED. AND HE IS TRYING TO STOP OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE FROM GOING DOWN THE SAME ROAD THAT HE TRAVELED. MR. WILLIAMS WAS THE ONLY FATHER FIGURE THAT SOME OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE AND ALTHOUGH HE MAY HAVE STEERED SOME OF THE THE WRONG WAY WHAT ABOUT ALL OF THE YOUNGER ONES WALKING AROUND THEIR SCHOOLS WITH GUNS, KNIVES AND OTHER DEADLY OBJECTS THAT CAN HARM SOMEONE WHAT ABOUT THE POSITIVE CHANGE HE CAN HAVE IN THEIR LIVES. AND ALL OF THOSE WHO THINK THAT HE SHOULD BE EXECUTED TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT YOUR SONS, DAUGHTERS, NEICES, NEPHEWS, AND COUSINS THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY GO THROUGH ON A DAILY BASIS AND THE DECISIONS THAT THEY MUST MAKE KILLIKNG MR. WILLIAMS MAY HENDER THEIR DECISION TO JOIN A GANG BECAUSE ALL THEY HAVE TO DO HIS TALK TO THE RIGHT PERSON AND LET THAT PERSON CONVINCE THEM. BUT LETS FACE IT THE YOUTH OF TODAY ARE MORE APT TO LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN WHERE THEY ARE GOING AND NOT THEIR PARENTS OR LEGAL GARDIIN AND BEIN THAT MR. WILLIAMS HAS NOT ONLY BEEN IN A GANG BUT ACTUALLY HELP START ON WILL BE A BIG WAKE UP CALL FOR SOME OF THOSE YOUNG ONES WHO ARE TRYING TO JOIN ONE. SO IF YOU DON’T WANT TO THINK AOUT ANTTHING ELSE THINK ABOUT THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR FAMILY WHO JUST MIGHT USE MR.WILLIAMS ADVICE AS A WARNING AND PERSUE THEIR GOALS SUCCESSFULLY
December 9th, 2005 at 12:05 pm
NIQUOLE, thats the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. This man is no role model father figure, if thats the case he should be spending life in jail for abuse, neglect and being a dead beat dad. The execution must take place otherwise whats to deter other young brothers from killing one another? Life in prison with 3 squares a day, a roof and a cot and still being able to live the thug life isn’t so bad for some of these gangbangers. I can’t believe that anybody supports letting this animal live.
December 9th, 2005 at 12:13 pm
Niquole,
Did you go visit Tookie for some nookie last evening? Did his big black manhood change your ideas or did you just get a big ass smile after it was over? WAKE UP LADY!!!!!
WHY DONT YOU APPROACH SOME OF THE CRIP BROTHERS RIGHT NOW AND DELIVER YOUR OWN MESSAGE OF HOW MANY KIDS HAVE BEEN SAVED BY THIS THUG……….I AM SURE MOST OF THEM WILL PROBABLY ASK FOR SOME NOOKIE JUST LIKE OLD TOOKIE………..GET A LIFE LADY BECAUSE THE ONE YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE WILL FINALLY BE PUT TO REST NEXT WEDNESDAY, OH AND BY THE WAY, HIS MESSAGE OF SAVING KIDS FROM GANGS IS JUST A COP OUT WAY TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS——-BE A MAN TOOKIE, AND TAKE IT LIKE A MAN BROTHER.
Concerned for victims
December 9th, 2005 at 12:44 pm
I personel think that excuting him will not change the fact that he killed 4 people. Sin is sin, he will have to answer to God for his self. Two wrong don’t make a right. He will have to live in prison for the rest of his life… Spare him
December 9th, 2005 at 1:07 pm
i have been trying to find out,who the people were that he was
convicted for killing because if any of them were black,then
the real (big story) is not being told….when was the last time
a black was given the death sentance for killing another black
find out—–i will watching your website thanks
December 9th, 2005 at 1:38 pm
I was just reading an interesting article on BAW.com and according to book sales Mr. Williams books only reach about 300 or so sales. Who exactly has he reached? And for the 18 year old (sorry I don’t remember your name) who said no one seems to care about the youth. Look around and you’ll find strong sisters and brothers. There may be some in the family, in the community, churches, etc. but they are around. Where will fail is not looking in the media. Just because they are in the media don’t mean they are any good. Tookie may have said some good things because he’s actually experienced jail and its hardships, but there are those who can actually lend a listening ear, help with advice, etc. You just have to be careful of people in general because of the day we’re living in. My prayers are with you and every young person feeling the same way.
December 9th, 2005 at 1:40 pm
Can anyone who is so adamant that Mr. Williams be put to death give me your feelings on Charles Manson? Here is a guy that started his criminal career at age 14, which included 2 robberies, 18 escapes from a boys school, another escape in a stolen car in which he robbed 14 more gas stations, sodomizing a boy while holding a razor to his throat, and paroled 3 TIMES, all before he went to LA. We all know the rest of the story, including his life sentence. Now if ever there was a dog that needed to be put to sleep……Tax dollars have been spent for the last 36 YEARS on this nut. Sadly, we will never have a debate on whether or not he gets clemency. Is his the case where he could do more good alive than dead? I’m not on the Tookie Williams bandwagon, but c’mon. Kill them all, or let them all live, just make up our mind.
December 9th, 2005 at 1:45 pm
Angelica like your book
December 9th, 2005 at 2:10 pm
YO YO YO! THIS IS A MAN’S LIF THAT WERE TALKINK ABOUT HERE.
IF YOU WERE IN THIS POSITION WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
WHY ARE WE TRING TO KILL A MAN THAT HAS COMMITTED A CRIME 30 YEARS AGO.
THATS THE PAST PEOPLE CHANGE GET OVER IT.
CRIP GANG 4 LIFE BITCH
December 9th, 2005 at 2:17 pm
Jayceon.
Since you are a Crip, when in the world did you care about anyones life?
December 9th, 2005 at 2:20 pm
You are a nigger. N-I-G-G-E-R. And you wonder why your race continually gets a bad rap. 2 to 1 you end up just like your mentor, a dead nigger.
I do see there are some black people out there, and some poor white trash.
There is a difference between a nigger and a black guy. You make the case very clear Jayceon
December 9th, 2005 at 2:22 pm
EXECUTION PARTY AT MY PLACE!!!
YOU BRING THE FIXIN’S AND I’LL SUPPLY THE MEAT!!!
MAKE SURE TO BRING SOME BLUE AND RED BANDANNAS SO WE CAN BURN THEM ALL WHEN IT’S OVER!!!!
If he has redeemed himself, then he will be in the pearly gates and live a great afterlife.
If not, well….
BBQ TOOKIE BURGERS FOR ALL!!!
YEE-HAW!!!!!
December 9th, 2005 at 2:27 pm
Parties in the future:
Helter Skelter, Charlie Manson going away party (date unknown)
Scott “Try to kill my baby, bitch” Peterson poison drink party.
Death of Osama bin Laden cocktail social, featuring Al-Qaeda smoked smokies
That woman who killed her kids’ “Dead bitch walking on the green mile” sock hop.
…and
Tookie’s 2nd anniversary since being “accidentally” thrown in with the sharks party.
PARTY OVER HEAH!!! PARTY OVER THEAH!!
December 9th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
YOU ARE THE MOST ONE SIDED MOTHER@#$$%* I HAVE EVER SCENE. I HOPE YOU OR NOBODY YOU LOVE EVER NEEDS MERCY. GOD GIVES GOD TAKES AWAY.
December 9th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
Here’s a little information I researched
LIFE VS. DEATH
• The California death penalty system costs taxpayers $114 million per year beyond the costs of keeping convicts locked up for life. Taxpayers have paid more than $250 million for each of the state’s 11 executions. (L.A. Times, March 6, 2005)
• In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003).
• In Indiana, the total costs of the death penalty exceed the complete costs of life without parole sentences by about 38%, assuming that 20% of death sentences are overturned and reduced to life. (Indiana Criminal Law Study Commission, January 10, 2002).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial level. (Duke University, May 1993).
• Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• In Texas, a death penalty case costs an average of $2.3 million, about three times the cost of imprisoning someone in a single cell at the highest security level for 40 years. (Dallas Morning News, March 8, 1992).
December 9th, 2005 at 2:47 pm
Good research, Dee.
So then, what do you propose we do with him?
December 9th, 2005 at 2:52 pm
Joe Smith. The word you were looking for is SEEN. As in past tense of to see. Why should he deserve mercy over anyone else on DeathRow Joe? The message is not a good one to the youths involved in these gangs, that there is not resposibility for your actions. That is not the way life is.
That’s not the way nature is. Newton’s third law states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This holds true to ANYHING in nature. Look at it that way. He killed, now he will be killedlet nature run it’s course
December 9th, 2005 at 2:55 pm
Hello again, Dee. Interesting information….
December 9th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Good research but it points more at the flaws of the juctice system, not the cost of putting someone to death. If he was put down 10 years ago or more those numbers you have would be significantly lower.
For those who like the Race Card, see the link. 2/3 of the criminals given a death sentance in the State of Indiana since 1977 to July 1 2005 were——-WHITE.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/rowstats.htm
December 9th, 2005 at 3:05 pm
Dee,,,,,What do those figures represent? Could it be the massive court and legal costs expended to try these people and to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? Hmm…We have in place a legal system that allows for a continued (albeit finite) appeals process subsequent to a jury/judge decision, which again, is based on presented evidence relevant to its specific case..Your stance is obvious; you are against the death penalty. Sorry, but that’s what we have here and the verdict is in…………………GUILTY.
December 9th, 2005 at 3:07 pm
Don’t you think that the information on that link is kinda skewed? I mean, naturally, the rate would be higher for whites since Indiana hasn’t had any blacks to live there since the Jackson family moved.
December 9th, 2005 at 3:36 pm
How about this. I hope nobody brings that race card up again. IGNORANT!!
http://www.deathpenalty.org/index.php?pid=stats
I know, I know, not reflective of population trends. That is a farce considering that blacks are 5 times more likely to be the offender in a crime. You do the math.
Just adding wood to the fire, nothing else. I am working on more for Dee. It is NOT more expensive to put a ciminal to death. Something the Leftwing media would try to have you believe
December 9th, 2005 at 3:42 pm
See my post above with Tookie’s list of appeals. If we only allowed appeals that are relevant in proving one’s innocence and eliminated the many more that are used merely as delaying tactics, it would save millions in taxpayer dollars. Life without parole cases are given the same opportunities to appeal. They are merely left oout of the studies you have showed us Dee. True, without adding the costs of all of the LWOP cases the death penalty would be more expensive. You add the time in court plus time in jail 75K per year in maximum lockup over as little as 20 years…1.5 million without impending legal costs to the state. How can you be serious without looking at both sides DEE?
December 9th, 2005 at 3:43 pm
The Cowardly back shooting nigger ( Tookie PUNK Williams ) is going to be Maggot food in about 5 days , lol and there is not a thing you ignorant monkeys can do about it , Big Tough CRIP general , sitting in his cage begging for his life , The Fat ass toad is acting just like the Bitch he is , His Crips have killed more people than the 911 attack , More people than Timothy McViegh in oklahoma city who attacked the FBI building , But unlike Tookie the Bitch , Tim went to his death like a man , He didnt go out like a Squrming little whineing rat the way Tookie is going to die , LOL the austrian will not give this cowardly back shooting gutter snipe CLEMENCY , and very soon Tookie will get whats coming to him , As they pump the battery acid into his viens i hope he screams in Horror , And if there is a hell and a devil i hope that tookie gets Fucked in the ass with a red hot jackhammer for eternity . And i hope the rest of you Dirty niggers RIOT so the Austrian can call out the marines to open fire and kill 1000s of you LAZY Cowardly THUG NIGGERS , FUCK YOU.
December 9th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
Six thoughts for the weekend about the cost. Everyone enjoy your freedom!!!
1) historical increases in prison costs, including judicial decisions regarding prison conditions,and the national inflation rate
2) medical costs, including the immense cost of geriatric care, associated with real LWOP sentences
3) injury or death to the inmate by violence
4) injury or death to others caused by the inmate
(3 and 4 anticipate no DP and that prisoners, not fearing additional punishment, other than loss of privileges, may increase the likelihood of violence. One could make the same assumptions regarding those on death row. The difference is that death row inmates will average 6 years incarceration vs. 50 years projected for LWOP)
5) the risk and the perceived risk of escape
6) the justifiable lack of confidence by the populace in our legislators, governors, parole boards and judges, i.e. a violent inmate will be released upon society.
Now what seems like the logical choice? And which one would you say costs more. Keep em coming Dee.
December 9th, 2005 at 4:10 pm
Just more wood for the fire. Please no more race card stuff.
Blacks murder more than 1,600 whites each year.
Blacks murder whites at 18 times the rate whites murder blacks.
Blacks murdered, raped, robbed, or assaulted about one million whites in 1992.
In the last 30 years, blacks committed 170 million violent and non-violent crimes against whites.
Blacks under 18 are more than 12 times more likely to be arrested for murder than whites under 18.
About 90% of the victims of interracial crimes are white.
Blacks commit 7.5 times more violent interracial crimes than whites, although whites outnumber blacks by 7 to 1.
On a per capita basis, blacks commit 50 times more violent crime than whites.
Black neighborhoods are 35 times more violent than white neighborhoods.
Of the 27 million nonviolent robberies in 1992, 31% (8.4 million) were committed by blacks against whites. Less than 2% were committed by whites against blacks.
Of the 6.6 million violent crimes, 20% (1.3 million) were interracial.
Of the the 1.3 million interracial violent crimes, 90% (1.17 million) are black against white
December 9th, 2005 at 4:36 pm
it is so sad that even in this modern and enlightened age any one can even consider that violence can be the solution to any problem.
the death penalty is and has never been a deterrent. check the number of murders in states where the death penalty exists vs states where there is no death penalty. per capita states where the death penalty exists have higher murder rates so that dispels that notion.
what type of execution is in line for the president and the bureaucrats who sent all those soldiers and bombs to kill innocent woman and children in poor countries all for money and power. one could argue that tookie didnt know better or he was only responding to what the world had showed him up until that point. what can we say about the president and war-mongering washington bureaucrats? they didnt know better or they were responding to terrorism!
when is the last time you heard anybody mention the name ben laden?
once again the powers that be are selling you up the river! this whole thing is so sad because everyone knows that the governor is not going to look at the facts and that this will only be a polictical decision. so i am sad to say that no humanitarian reasoning will help our brother tookie.
no one ever took the time to at least consider the underlying components to this and every bad thing that happens to poor people in every ghetto in the world. who pumps those guns drugs and liquor into those communities? what all white jury will preside over those people?
how can anybody sit in judgment over someone else and not lift a finger to help change the conditions that created the malady? yes america you created nurtured and designed these conditions and when someone responds negatively to them you have to only pull the switch or inject the poison and go home.
i submit to you that until you service the roots, the tree will always bear rotten fruit. there will be many more tookies and you guys will sit here and address each other with pros and cons always conveniently skipping over the real problems. see because looking at the real problem is indeed a blanket indictment that covers YOU all!
who will speak for tookie?
i will speak for him because he is me and i am him-
December 9th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
This may be my last post, but, I will continue to lurk. John Jay, you provide specific figures (a bit old, however). White Power, you speak with/from anger. JC, you are “lookin’ for love” in all the wrong places. Mr. Saturn, great call. Jayceon Taylor, you are a Yo-Yo (bring it on “B”). Joe Smith, I’m astounded you can figure out how to use a computer. The rest, well, good luck to you. This is about reality and what we, as AMERICANS(no other kind of cans), are faced with….GUILTY, PAY THE PRICE. YOU KNEW IT WHEN YOU STARTED!
December 9th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
To anonymous,
When was the last time life with out parole was a deterrent to crime? I’d like to see those figures as well.
December 9th, 2005 at 7:31 pm
12-9 Folks, just look at these blogs, and its apparent whats wrong with our society, including mine.
The hatred spews forth from black and white mouths with equal venom. Minister Louis Farrahkan is absolutely
correct, when he states, those in power, economic power that is, wish to keep us as a multi-cultural Nation, divided, confused, disoriented, disfunctional, and poorer for it. If we think things thru, we are
all in this together, we will succeed or fail together, one and all. If we can get past the 200 years of
abuses, mistrust, greed, lusts, we may get to the root problems that beset our Nation. What are they:
Poverty, Poor Educations, Poor Job Opportunities, Poor Health and Housing, Poor Parenting, Poor Child
and Pre-Natal Care, Lack of a Proper Living Wage, I’m not speaking of Minimum Wages, but a Living Wage,
so we are not a Nation of the Working Poor. Forget Tookie and all the other Murderers on Death Rows
around our Nation, and concentrate on the Positive, Something Good People of All Races can fixate on
and work to improve our Lives. Barney
December 9th, 2005 at 7:35 pm
Your point was very well thought out and articulated. I have been thinking this whole save Tookie is more of a political statement than a humanitarioan. I agree the death penalty needs to be examined once more. I don’t feel it is a just punishment. But he was sentenced to death and it is time to pay up.
Very well written.
December 9th, 2005 at 7:53 pm
Barney, by far the most intelligent addition to this blog in some time. I agree forget Tookie and the rest of the condemed. Lets work on what we have left and fix the reasons why we are in the shape we are.
December 9th, 2005 at 8:00 pm
Well ya’ll come on now. I think I’m going to put on a concert here at neverland tomorrow to benifit Tookie. I will also be debuting a song that I think will be a big hit it’s called “Tookie Just Beat It” as well as another one called “Tookie’s a Thiller Killer”. I just love those big arms, I wish he would wrap them around me and squeeze me til I moon walk his ass out the death chamber door. I love you all. Peace and save some your Tookie. I want to thank you all for supporting me I know what Tookie is going through I thought I was going to get the needle too. C’mon my fans save Tookie.
December 9th, 2005 at 8:07 pm
For those of you who feel that Tookie shouldn’t die go to http://www.floppingaces.net/2005/11/30/die-tookie-die/ and see pictures of his victims.
December 9th, 2005 at 8:28 pm
Tookie, too bad Johnny Cochran is dead. If he was still around he could get you off death row, just like he got me off them murder charges because of that white bitch and her boyfriend. I need to get back to finding the real killers…
December 9th, 2005 at 9:46 pm
Every man must live and die with the truth. Look hard onto the victims of William’s murder:
http://flapsblog.com/?p=1474
He is already in the hands of his maker. A confession, surrendering to the truth, would turn the hard hearts of the world in a way we will never know - because Williams is too hard-hearted to tell the truth. He will persist in his lies and distortions, it has been his nature. There will be no redemption, there will only be death.
December 9th, 2005 at 9:53 pm
12/9 For those of you who despise OJ Simpson, and feel that he was guilty of killing Nicole Brown and
Ron Goldman, give me a few good reasons why he would throw away a lifetime of athletic and professional
achievements to kill an admitted dope headed wife, and a lover boy, hanging around with his tongue hanging
out like a rutting dog, waiting to stick his dick somewhere, anywhere. The case was handled terribly by
the police and runover by the media, to make money pure and simple with a crazed public audience. it was
really sickening to watch. If ya want to really get down and low, then ya know the Columbian drug guys gave
both of them the Columbian necktie job, her for welching on some drug debts of about $150,000 for cocaine,
and him cause he was a witness, just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She and the black girlfriend,
cant recall her name, something like Renick, owed the gang a lot of dough, and ya dont welch out ont these
guys, get ya ass kicked in or ya neck sliced and diced. A heavy fillet type knife was found down the alley
beside Nicole’s house about half a block away, but nothing was ever done about it. A setup job was done on
OJ to draw attention towards the husband or ex-husband, as they always work from the inner to the outer
circle of friends, family, acquaintences in solving a crime. Why would OJ fly to Chicago, when it would have looked better to have been found at home by the police asleep in bed instead of making up alibis.
Johnny Cochran did an outstanding job on this case and was a great defense lawyer. All is not as it seems
in a case like this, where the police is working hard to convict you in spite of the facts. Barney
December 9th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
I have read all the comments and only would like to respond to some of the things written by Anonymous.
1. the death penalty is and has never been a deterrent
Since the death penalty was reenacted in 1976, violent crimes have gone DOWN in states that are using it. Comparing states is not an accurate way to test the effectiveness of the death penalty. If we start chopping hands off of burglars in California, there will still be more cases of theft than there are in, say, Maine.
2. what type of execution is in line for the president and the bureaucrats who sent all those soldiers and bombs to kill innocent woman and children in poor countries all for money and power
I just got out of the Marines after serving for 8 years, two in Iraq and Afghanistan. I find your comments very insulting. We never try to kill innocents and I think our efforts have done and will do more good than harm for that country… that is another debate for another time, but I will tell you this: imagine being a quarterback that throws tons of touchdowns and very few interceptions. Imagine a media that only reports the interceptions and none of your touchdowns. That is what being part of that war felt like. Did you know : Threatening the president’s life is treasonous and punishable by death.
3. so i am sad to say that no humanitarian reasoning will help our brother tookie.
From what I have seen about Tookie’s case, I wouldn’t consider him a brother. Ghost-writing some children books, shouldn’t get you off the hook for murdering four people in such a gruesome fashion. I don’t care about the Crips involvement. I think the gangs would have sprouted, regardless.
4. no one ever took the time to at least consider the underlying components to this and every bad thing that happens to poor people in every ghetto in the world
You are right about there being underlying components that turned Tookie into a senseless animal. Segregation ended in Brown v Board of Education (1954), but sadly, white and black communities have separated further from each other. The average white kid goes to a nice mostly white school funded by the property taxes of affluent community. The average black kid goes to a terrible mostly black school funded by the property taxes of a poor community. The cycle continues and the separation between whites and blacks in education grows larger. The problem can be fixed through better distribution of tax dollars and rezoning of residential areas, in my opinion. My point is that I would like to see the black community and the leaders of the NAACP put their political backing into more important issues. Why does the black community only stand up for scumbags like Rodney King, Tookie Williams, and OJ Simpson? Certainly Rodney King was wronged and several other blacks have been, but I never see a flood of blacks voicing their opinion over important issues, like education.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:17 pm
I have read all the comments and only would like to respond to some of the things written by Anonymous.
1.” the death penalty is and has never been a deterrent”
Since the death penalty was reenacted in 1976, violent crimes have gone DOWN in states that are using it. Comparing states is not an accurate way to test the effectiveness of the death penalty. If we start chopping hands off of burglars in California, there will still be more cases of theft than there are in, say, Maine.
2.” what type of execution is in line for the president and the bureaucrats who sent all those soldiers and bombs to kill innocent woman and children in poor countries all for money and power”
I just got out of the Marines after serving for 8 years, two in Iraq and Afghanistan. I find your comments very insulting. We never try to kill innocents and I think our efforts have done and will do more good than harm for that country… that is another debate for another time, but I will tell you this: imagine being a quarterback that throws tons of touchdowns and very few interceptions. Imagine a media that only reports the interceptions and none of your touchdowns. That is what being part of that war felt like. Did you know : Threatening the president’s life is treasonous and punishable by death.
3. so i am sad to say that no humanitarian reasoning will help our brother tookie.
From what I have seen about Tookie’s case, I wouldn’t consider him a brother. Ghost-writing some children books, shouldn’t get you off the hook for murdering four people in such a gruesome fashion. I don’t care about the Crips involvement. I think the gangs would have sprouted, regardless.
4. “no one ever took the time to at least consider the underlying components to this and every bad thing that happens to poor people in every ghetto in the world”
You are right about there being underlying components that turned Tookie into a senseless animal. Segregation ended in Brown v Board of Education (1954), but sadly, white and black communities have separated further from each other. The average white kid goes to a nice mostly white school funded by the property taxes of affluent community. The average black kid goes to a terrible mostly black school funded by the property taxes of a poor community. The cycle continues and the separation between whites and blacks in education grows larger. The problem can be fixed through better distribution of tax dollars and rezoning of residential areas, in my opinion. My point is that I would like to see the black community and the leaders of the NAACP put their political backing into more important issues. Why does the black community only stand up for scumbags like Rodney King, Tookie Williams, and OJ Simpson? Certainly Rodney King was wronged and several other blacks have been, but I never see a flood of blacks voicing their opinion over important issues, like education.
December 9th, 2005 at 10:28 pm
i read read the blog and the opinions,but i cant understand y in fact you,being the author of the blog,is so judgmental.if u preach the Bible in one point of your argument,preach it all the way.yes,the bible did say “An eye for an eye”,but the bible also said thou shall not commit murder,and even though Tookie Williams may have commited murder,it is not up to us as a society to persecute him.That is up to God.Just because he commited a crime doesnt mean we can do it to,and then justify it because its the law.No,i dont believe in the death penalty,because even the simple belief in it to me,means that you condone murder.If he did commit those crimes,he will have to deal with his fate on Judgement Day,the day Jesus will come back for His people.We as a society can’t go around pretending to be Christ,because that is what is happening.As for Tookie setting an example for those who commit crimes,why on earth should he have to die to show that he is a man?If the youth can’t look at what Tookie is going through,and how he is paying for his crimes as we speak,and how he will pay for what he has(or as he claims hasn’t) done,then something is wrong.We need to spend more time,as a community,on shaping our youth.We should teach them how to be Men and Women,not a convicted murderer.Instead of spending your time writing such an angry article Brandon,go help a child not go down the wrong path so that we don’t have to continue to see our sisters and brothers mess their lives up,and end up where Tookie Williams is.Maybe you should pray for the man,instead of trying to tell him how he should handle his own situation.Stop judging him,concern yourself with what you do and not what he needs to do.And since you know so much about the Bible,you should know that’s in the Bible too.Be blessed.
December 10th, 2005 at 12:03 am
Amen Brother,
A wonderful article…..Tookie should die for what he has done….it does not matter that after numerous years on Death Row he finally saw the light….
At least Tookie had the opportunity to live all those years before he realized he did wrong……What about the victims did they have the chance!
December 10th, 2005 at 2:00 am
james y lyons
Wrote:
“i have been trying to find out,who the people were that he was
convicted for killing because if any of them were black..”
This is the problem with this whole discussion. A person can read a lot of rubbish about this case without ever seeing the names of his 4 innocent victims.
Here they are:
Yen-I Yang,
Tsai-Shai Chen Yang,
Yu-Chin Yang Lin,
Albert Owens.
So convenient to forget about this man’s victims.
His lawyer was talking about the idea of arguing Mr. Williams innocence and said “We are not in a position to do that.”
Guess why not, because he was guilty.
I truly hope he is not executed so that in a year or so (when all his passionate supporters have forgotten all about him) he will begin to live out his life in his jail cell alone and forgotten.
December 10th, 2005 at 2:48 am
HU Girl - Maybe you should read the bible instead of reading the condensed version in People Magazine by Madonna or some other Hollyhood Slut. The Bible differentiates between murder and execution/killing. The 1st commandment is Thou shall NOT murder. It does not say kill as is popularly repeated. The Bible also allows those who have broken Man’s Law be punished by Man; “Judge not, least ye be judged by the same sword.” A little different than what the pseudo-Christians spout! These hypo-Christians pull snippets out of the Bible to suit their needs and cover THEIR deeds. This idea that we cannot judge is bunk! We have laws and there are consequences to actions. And on a personal note please learn to compose a cogent not if you are going to attack others.
December 10th, 2005 at 2:49 am
cogent note…. ha ha on me at 1 am.
December 10th, 2005 at 7:35 am
The facts are that if we shipped the black population out of the U.S. WILL be a safer place. The leftover white trash will fill in the jobs that are freed up.
Anyone care to argue that the crime rates and crime in general will not drop or prove me wrong on this? What are the prison population statistics on blacks vs. whits in prison?
I have an open mind on this but i can’t see how we wouldn’t be safer if they were all shipped away— slavery ended years ago–we don’t need them anymore–ship them back.
As far as Dookie–send him down
December 10th, 2005 at 8:55 am
JC i am glad you agree–i mean u dont run the country–we can handle that fine and we are pretty good at keeping you out of power. And you don’t contribute much of anything else. Where i live we have 1 black councilman (voted in by the inner city not because he is qualified–but because he can talk sh*t like most homies). He has been arrested 3 times for child support- once for soliciting a prostitute and twice for drugs–while in office— WTF??? Oh yea he has no jog either– runs around in a suit stirring up trouble– almost looks like the blacks that wear suits to sell their newspapers on the corner. Now i must agree when you guys hit your forties and realize that the shit talking gets you nowhere you do humble up pretty good.
December 10th, 2005 at 2:21 pm
To all the people that want tookie dead ya’ll need help
December 10th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Shanjae, speaking for myself, you’ve missed my point completely. I want anybody who has been convicted of a crime to be made to take responsibility for that crime. If one runs a red light (and gets caught) they should pay the fine. My comments are not from bias or a camaradarie for my “team”.
December 10th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Dirt Nap - you’re argument is diluted by your racial slurs and biggoted point of view.
Shanjae - Don’t sympathize with a murderer. Only personal responsibility can make the world a better place.
December 10th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
wHAT IS A “POOKIE” ANYWAY? gANG NAME?
December 10th, 2005 at 9:05 pm
Hello. I am from Australia, thank god we do not have the Death Penalty.
I pray that the Governor Schwarzenegger, stops the Execution of a man that has spent already a great deal of his life in a hell hole on Death Row.I find some of the comments here rather sick and crude.
I guess you think you can save a life or getting back a life by executing, m
December 10th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
Some of us will meet Tookie again, some will not. If you DO meet him, better hope the place isn’t too hot. Tookie if you’re truly redeemed…to die, is gain…right??
December 10th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
CONTINUED: Mr Williams. What can you feel on death that nakes you feel good, maybe you have not wore the shoe yet.
You know many on this earth kill, and take lifes, in war, and in peace as well. You cannot take a life and then sit back and feel good? How can you if you feel normal? Life is very precious indeed, so it that of Tookie Williams, he has helped many now and payed a lot to try and make up for the life he took from others.
He is a black man that does not make a difference, as a lot of white and all races from all Nations have killed.
I am disgusted as well, that America is still executing people in their county, maybe you should catch up with this day and age, and think what this will do to you as a nation, you live still in the dark ages, among the roman empire days, and still you murder prisoners for their pay back for a crime. Maybe you should read a lot about the Death Penalty, and go see for yourself a man they call a Dead Man Walking, yeah Tookie Williams has lived under that black cloud for years. I hope he gets a stay and gets off this horrible date for you that think the Death Sentence is Justice, maybe you had better remember, that we all are human, and oneday something can come back to haunt us as well. Loosing a love one is a very tramatic experience, but so is taking a prisoners life.
I wish you would see what other countries that have the death sentence, well most are third world countries.
You think America is squeeky clean, and they predict who should die or live? No I belive in Karma, what you do is what you get back. If Tookie losses his life it will be on all you that believe that the death sentence stops crime or fixes it. It does nothing of the sort, it just adds to the wounds we as countries have inflicted on our own country men, no matter what race, creed or colour, we should be doing, or finding out how to stop all this pain and hurt. Maybe being a black man and poor may not be good when you live in the USA.I have been there and saw a lot of racist talk, and a lot also in the past has shown, what black men suffer.
So live in the dark ages, believe what you like, but get off you ass here in front of your computer and do something to make this planet and world a better and fairer place to live. There is enough death out there at the moment to add one more to the page is a sad thing. Go read, about Tookie, and see he has tried to become a better man. You do not know what is ahead, so do not judge as we are all just human….
Do you know what is ahead for you as well? Maybe if oyu knew you would be trying to change your life now instead of wanting to take another. The death of Tookie will not bring back the lives he took. Not Ever, go and se how many men have been out to death under your justice of the death penalty, I am sure you may be amazed. and read also about the ones that got out fater twenty five years on death row as they were put there by mistake, They recieved $ 5 for all those years they suffered. Not bad for that system to tell a innocent man his life andtine in Hell was only worth $5 dollars…A eye for eye makes the whole world blind. I
December 10th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
Will someone familiar with the African American leadership and their goals please explain what is going on in the minds of the organizations which claim to be the representatives of Black Americans?
The NAACP holds up people like who commit horrific crimes and spend countless dollars trying to save them from punishment, while that money and effort could have been put to better use by paying for several scholarships for young African Americans.
It appears as if these so called Black Leaders are only interested in keeping their own race down. Is this because a highly educated working population has no need for you?
Tookie can go to hell where he belongs. Turn your attention to the younger generation. They are the only hope for the future.
December 10th, 2005 at 11:10 pm
Tookie Williams is a scurge to society and a violent cold blooded racist murderer. It’s time for him to go to hell. Die like a man scumbag
December 10th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
let god judge him……. as it should be
December 10th, 2005 at 11:35 pm
Agreed Ice - but let’s let god have his chance on the 13th. I’m sure it will be a short meeting and then this piece of garbage will be dispatched to his just deserve and on to hell where he belongs - Die like a man Tookie
December 11th, 2005 at 1:06 am
Every dollar spent keeping Tookie Williams alive in prison is a dollar that can‘t be spent on safer roads or emergency room care. Not executing Williams will endanger innocent lives.
December 11th, 2005 at 8:34 am
By thursday Tookie will start to rot– Friday he will bloat and start to stink a whole lot worse than he does now. Bye BYe Dookie
December 11th, 2005 at 8:59 am
The jury that found him guilty did have a black person which is roughly proportional to the number of Black Americans in the population. Not true. They decided to take the 3 African americans off th case and added in one Latino and one Asian and 10 whites so, did that sound fair to you? By all means I am not saying Tookie was inocent but I don’t find the American justice system all that fair and square either. I am glad to say I am not an American. White trashes in America hate Asians, Africans, Afrian- Americans, lationos and Jews. Hell, they even hate us Europeans. They hate, hate, hate………
December 11th, 2005 at 9:12 am
How is not fair because blacks weren’t on the jury? Blacks think violence is ok–blacks don’t rule the country– blacks are usually ignorant– make the jury up the race of his victims, or ayt least what the society is–which is majority white- a jury of his peers would be a bunch of flaming thieves and scum, who cares what they have to say or what they think–they look up to pookie so he would probably be found innocent– have the people that run the country judge him not the scum of society that rob, cheat, and steal (Louisiana for example). If it were up to them Jesse Jackson would run the country–next thing you know we would be another Haiti. Democrats– give me a break.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:28 am
You’re right, Hello World. We shouldn’t let the scum of society that rob (I.R.S.), cheat (the Republican Party), and steal (Enron Executives) run this country. Hmmmmmmmmmm In certain cases, violence in absolutely necessary. I’m sure that if you were in the middle of the desert in Iraq, you wouldn’t catch someone planting a roadside bomb and invite him to 4:00 tea. I’m sure that you wouldn’t catch a burglar in your home and ask him to stay for lunch. That being said, a certain amount of violence in some, not all situations is acceptable. Was what Tookie did right? Hell no. But if you think that he has that kind of power to control the actions of so-called Crips all over this country and in other countries, making him remotely responsible for their dumb-assed actions, you should personally bitch slap every ignorant person in the country. Start with that really ignorant mf that you saw in the mirror this morning.
December 11th, 2005 at 1:28 pm
I’d say NO DEATH SENTENCE!
I am rather against the death sentence except for those cases wherein definite disrespect and disregard of the sanctity of life are demonstrated … implying either 1) a conscious murder out of decision that the life of someone else is without value, or 2) inability to comprehend the enormity of the act of killing but still deciding to become barbarian. I would not kill those who are merely nuts or of insufficient mental capacity to understand, but that is a borderline and difficult decision. Cruelty would be a primary consideration.
From what little reading I have done, I think Tookie falls into the “total disregard of the sanctity of life” category and should suffer the consequences of his acts.
BUT I ALSO BELIEVE that he has experienced a change of heart and is teaching others to quit their gang-murder life.
So … I don’t care which way the coin falls for Tookie FOR HIS PART in all this.
But … I believe by letting him live and circulate his new written work, we can disarm perhaps a few future gang-killers and save a few lives — both of the person who would be a murderer and his/her potential victims — by letting him live we also steal the thunder of those whose spiritual advancement is stuck somewhere around revenge, vengeance, and reactionary emotional thought. This includes, in a reversed sort of way, the families of the people he killed who may be calling for his death.
short answer:
NO DEATH PENALTY
December 11th, 2005 at 3:42 pm
Tookie is a complete fraud. He hasn’t saved one life, but is responsible for countless violent deaths in our community. Not to mention the 4 that he is directly responsible forand found guilty of violently murdering in cold blood. Get your heads out of where the sun don’t shine brothers. Can’t you see he had unleashed the scurge upon us all. It’s time for the MF scumbag to die. BTW - then we can debate the validity of the death penalty, but maybe wait til they get those bastards Westerfield and Petersen first.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:30 pm
Peterson is innocent.
December 11th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
12/11 Sunday: Why the hell Gov. Schwartnegger doesnt go on and
make his intentions clear, I fail to understand. Is the Governor grandstanding or what? Its cruel punishment to make any poor soul
sit in his cell beside the death chamber until only hours before
he lives or dies. Get it over with, for God’s Sake, tell the guy
ya live for another day, or ya die on Tuesday as scheduled. To give
false hopes to the Crips, Bloods, Gangsta Disciples, is totally wrongheaded. On the up and up, if they choose to riot, for whatever
reason, fill their asses full of 00 buckshot, let the streets
and gutters run red with their blood, Society has the right of
self-preservation against any person, or persons committing any
criminal acts. Barney
December 11th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
I would like to see Hollywood and the black leaders in this country start to stand up the the actual victims. Don’t defend the thugs. Work for the single mothers, the children with no hope, and the victims of crimes like the ones committed by Mr. Williams. People are struggling everyday just to make a better life for themselves and their families and we are expected to forget the brutality of gangs and the culture of violence that they have created. Hollywood, please stop glorifying the thug life.
December 11th, 2005 at 7:53 pm
Guess what, barney? I agree with your ENTIRE last post!!!
December 11th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
THIS ANIMAL NEEDS TO DIE. THERE IS A BIG DIFRENCE BETWEEN REABILITATION AND PUNISHMENT. IF YOU KILL SOME ONE YOU FORFIT YOUR LIFE PERIOD !
December 11th, 2005 at 8:58 pm
In these few final hours he should just come clean, accept fate and go on that trip to the next world! Eye for an Eye.
It is not cool to be a criminal and gang member see here where it get’s you- at the end of a needle.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
how can you talk against black people and not look at yourself first of all what you say on the internet do not hurt us you only make yourself look stupid and uneducated did you get a ged because you talk like you do i have a idea lets hang white people and beat they ass with horse belts and throw they red belly ass to the sea cut off they balls and feed them cow shit for breakfast and why do white people smell like wet dogs what? do you fuck them in the shower mutha f***er you nasty pig lip b***h
December 11th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Sounds like you and your followers are “GOD”. You all have the power to kill. GoodLuck in life, my friend as another thousands tears of blood sweat from our Lord “Jesus”.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:12 am
To comment number 238: you should really examine how undeducated YOU are before you start wielding threats and excuses for people who are only speaking the truth. The sad fact is is that “tookie” murdered four people who don’t have a chance to speak for themselves today. While I don’t agree with the death penalty, I don’t believe this man should be celebrated for changing. He should accept responsibility for the trauma that he has spread across the world with violence he created. Children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, brothers, sisters, and countless others have died as a result of this person’s actions. You need to examine yourself and maybe you can change your life for the better so you don’t get caught up in tookie’s legacy of killing. I hope you will recognize your own hatred for others and seek out help from those who still care for you.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:55 am
Are you kidding me? Save Tookie? Someone needs to tell Scott Peterson, David Westerfield(child rapist, murderer) and Richard Ramirez(night stalker) to start writing. I don’t think lending your name to a book qualifies you for clemency. We are doomed if the best chance that children, black American children have to deter them from gangs and crime is a four time convicted murderer. How about uniting and calling for Snoop Dogg to stop glorifying the Crips and crime through music, how about calling for the end of out of wedlock births (that’s my baby mama), how about better parenting, how about more libraries, how about accountability (no that would be racist). To call for the abolishment of the death penalty would be righteous! But to jump on the Jesse Jackson, Jaime Foxx, Snoop Dogg bandwagon is a joke! A book by Tookie isn’t going to save any child but two strong parents will! If your gonna save Tookie you got to save them all. Just in case you forgot, look up the crime scene photos, those are real people. That’s real!
December 12th, 2005 at 4:57 am
You offer some very compelling arguments. I do however disagree. And I wont write a long response because I am not trying to sway you. I am one of those that disagree’s with the Death Penalty. I disagree for two reasons. One I think that historically there has been and continue to be a disproportionate amount of minorities and poor on death row and executed. I agree that we should up hold our laws as United State’s citizens, but I cannot support a law that is inherently biased. Second, I am also someone that opposes the Death Penalty from a moral perspective. I am pro-life and that pro-life stance applies to both the unborn and the living. I do not see how murdering someone as punishment is justified. You quote the Bible and mention Jesus, but you speak as if you have never sinned. In the Bible Jesus does not qualify which sins are greater than others. In fact if every deserving person got the death penalty based on sin alone, then I dare say that you and I would be up there with the rest of the populus. Thank you for a compelling argument as to why Mr. Williams should be executed. I disagree.
December 12th, 2005 at 5:41 am
I’M A 16 YEAR MALE BLACK MALE FROM iLLINOIS AND I FEEL THAT IT IS IGNORANCE TO KILL A MAN THAT HAS ALREADY SERVED MORE TIME THAN WAS REALL NECESSARY IN MY OPINION. THIS MAN HAS BEEN REDEEMED IF NOT BY AMERICA, BY GOD, ALL SINS ARE REDEEMED ANDI THINK THAT IT IS STUPIDITY ON HE gOVERNORS PART TO WANT TO WAIT TILL THE LAST MINUTE ITS VERY STUPID TO ME. THIS IS NOT A FREAKIN TOY, THIS IS A MANS LIKE THAT WE’RE DEALING WITH HERE. IF THE VICTIMS FAMILIES HAVE THE HEART TO FORGIVE HIM THEN WHY CAN’T WE. OKAY HE DID KILL BUT ITS NOT BACKED BY A SECURE WITNESSES, AND THOSE OF THEM THAT ARE WITNESSES ARE FUCKIN SNITCHES . IF THE gOVERNOR WAS TO HAVE THIS MAN EXECUTED HOW DO THE THINK THE cRIPS WILL NOW TURN OUT. TO HAVE THEIR FOUNDER KILLED BY LETHAL INJECTION THEY WILL GO MAD . I WOULDN’T EVEN DOUBT IFTHE MURDER RATES SHOT UP BUT dECEMBER 16TH . THEN YOU ALL WILL BE WISHING YOU HAD KEPT HIM ALIVE THIS MAN CAN CHANGE A LOT . MORE THAN WAS bUSH CAN EVER CHANGE SO IN MY OPINION IF YOU KIIL HIM DON’T EXPECT FOR schwarzenegger to be governor again, peace
December 12th, 2005 at 7:05 am
shavionn=idiot
Please jump from the closest bridge in your part of the jungle.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:16 am
Hi, My name is Shavionn Smith and I live off food stamps and what other wellfare my family can scam so we don’t have to work or go to school. When you see me, please kick the crap out of me! I’m not sure who my daddy be and my mum is a crack and meth addicted prostitute. My mum says if I don’t be a crip I have to get a job at Wendy’s Hamburger store. So I wants to be a crip, can someone please tell me how many people that I’s needs to hurts to become a crip?
December 12th, 2005 at 7:54 am
Dont do it,Stanley is a changed man and will be helpful in the future is putting a stop to gang violence around the world.
December 12th, 2005 at 8:58 am
As a 21 year old college student in Florida, I find each and every comment intriguing. I am a staunt opponent of the death penalty mainly because if one person is wrongly executed then the system has failed us all. Out of every person that has posted or read this forum, none of us were there when these victims lives were taken, so in actuality we don’t know how the event transpired and many other details of the actual case. People who have testified against Mr. Williams may be telling the truth, but have we ever stopped to think that they may also have alterior motives. More than likely Mr. Williams has committed crimes in his past just on the stregnth of the gang that he founded. He alone can not take the blame or responsibility of what the “Crips” as whole have done to our nation. Because Florida is such a death penalty supporter, I have done quite a bit of research on the topic. I really thought that our prison system was put in place to rehabilitate our criminals. How do we know for sure if he is a changed man. Now granted that does not change the fact the 4 innocent people are no longer with us, but when there is a question of doubt should we act? To me that plays into the shoot now, ask question later police theory. I I also realize that Mr. Williams has been on death row for more than 20 years, but there have been cases of people who’ve spent more time than that on death rown and have been exonerated. I really do believe an eye for an eye leave the entire world blind. I also found research that stated that it cost more money to house and execute a death row inmate than it does to incarcerate a man for the rest of his life. The bottom line in my point of view is that none of us can say to a degree of certainty what happened, and who killed those innocent victims. The media, prosecutors, and defense attorneys all have agends to carry out. Take some time out in your busy day to see if that lie you told yesterday was forgiven or that young man or woman you had a dirty thought about was forgiven. Just a thought. I wish you all the best in your lives and those you come in contact with, and I pray we don’t ever find ourselves of the the ones we love as the topic of said discussion.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:00 am
Excuse the errors!
December 12th, 2005 at 9:04 am
Save your posts arguing for him. He is dying tomorrow like I predicted. If anyone with half a brain has read my posts from last friday you would understand that this is the correct thing to do economically and socially. All of you ignorant bastards out there, you need to start taking a look in the mirror. All of your people (black people) that are glorified are thugs and criminals. I’d really love to see some black people other than Condi or Colin Powell do something with their lives and realize that you get more from honey than vinegar. I think I speak for all white people and I should be for all black people when I say that the last people that any black organization has stood up for are criminals. Why not stand up for the youths and education. Too much bitching about the past and not enough looking towards the future.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:16 am
We can pile bile as much as we want to but few facts still remain. He is the reason we have endless bloodshed on our streets with kids claiming “tuffs” and “streets” they will never own. It started with him, it can only end with him, even if we have to “stay the course” in his execution. And where are these so called “pro-lifers”? When is a person’s life worthy, before or after birth? I digress. Point is, if this was the leader of the Klan and he was on death row, clemency would have been sought for some whatever sick reason they could conjure. This is also synonymous to someone infected with the HIV virus, knowingly infecting hundreds of others, proven guilty and is ready for execution (on the assumption the death penalty applies here). Then the sick twist, he/ she has the answer in his/ her gene to provide a cure for this disease, and it’s no good with him / she been dead because time is needed to explore this. What then? Any way, as far as I am concerned, if he can end all this, and there is unequivocal proof he can end it, let him exorcise this demon he created (same way we let bush clear up his own mess by giving him 4 more years). Worst-case scenario would be he did kill all those four people and we are not appeasing their spirits and resting ease the grief he caused their families. This is the greater quagmire and I sympathize with the governor, it’s really judgment day for him. One the other hand, the best thing we can get out of this will hopefully be the fact that one can live peacefully in their neighbor hood and the only time they hear gun fire it’s somebody “responsible” doing the shooting, the police, and not their kids. No one has come up with any bright ideas of how to end this madness and there is a man who is offering the antidote to this and we are ready in the old American way to snuff out his life. What do we really value?
December 12th, 2005 at 9:39 am
As i was disgusted to turn on the t.v. a few months ago and saw a sleazy looking black guy on, the first words out of this idiots mouth was “president Bush hates black people”, the white host was like omg– i was like wtf is this? A friend said some rap star- i said oh that qualifies him to make blanket ignorant statements. You think the majority of them look up to Colin Powell– hell no they look up to 50 cent–who brags about being shot. To each his own just stay the fuck away from me and you can bet i am not hiring any.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:07 am
Yeah, they look down on Colin because he sold out of the thug life for something better. I for one would be a lot more proud of myself making it as the Secretary of State rather than a guest of the state. STOP FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELVES!!
December 12th, 2005 at 10:28 am
I hope he suffers as he slowly dies. Killing this worthless piece of dog shit will make my christmas.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:50 am
On second thought, some white people really have issues! The world would really be at peace without some of your kind, seriously! How many white kids look up to bush, dick, etc, not as many as the ones who look up to Eminem, viva la bam et al. It’s a generation thing and no one will ever understand this as long as you are not from that generation. Not every black person wants to grow up and be an Enron CEO nor do all want to be gangsters. Find your niche and be good at it, this is the capitalistic American way of life. It’s also the same reason why Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson and all those bunny ranch penthouse whitey way of pimping excuse for “adult entertainment” is the “odere` de jour” in present day America. So like the “good book” says, clean up your trailer before you pick on my ghetto. Thank God for old age, the sieve that Mother Nature provided.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:14 am
I completely agree. He has been proven beyond a reasnable doubt and has been given the death penalty. He committed the crimes in 1979 but was convicted in 1981.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:37 am
I am so glad this crap is over! And everyone can get on with there little lives. what a bunch of whiners! blah blah blah racial slurs and all. makes me see that as a sociaty we have along very long ways to go. but as you go thru the next few days, those of you that are caring and I read a few “sane ones” please remember the victims and their families. and all the victims from the many crimes that have been commited thru the years.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:24 pm
MTU, Blacks comprise only 12 percent of the nation, but, according to the above figures, they comprise 37 percent of the welfare rolls. This should not be surprising; in 1994, blacks had a poverty rate of 33 percent. We should not, of course, think it unusual to find poor people on welfare. Consequently, discussions of race and welfare must turn on different issues.
iN 1994, the Maryland NAACP released a report concluding that “the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today.” For example, research by Dr. June O’Neill’s and Anne Hill for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services showed that a 50 percent increase in the monthly value of combined AFDC and food stamp benefits led to a 117 percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.
Secondly, welfare leads to increased crime by contributing to the marginalization of young black men in society. There are certainly many factors contributing to the increasing alienation and marginalization of young black men, including racism, poverty, and the failure of our educational system. However, welfare contributes as well. The welfare culture tells the man he is not a necessary part of the family. They are in effect cuckolded by the state. Their role of father and breadwinner is supplanted by the welfare check.
Finally, in areas where there is a high concentration of welfare, there may be an almost total lack of male role models. This can lead to crime in two ways. First, as the Maryland NAACP puts it, “A child whose parents draw a welfare check without going to work does not understand that in this society at least one parent is expected to rise five days of each week to go to some type of job.”
So I guess in conclusion, Y’all need to get a job!
The most prevalent question is why there are so many blacks in poverty. Liberals argue that it is the result of continuing racism and discrimination, especially at hiring time. Conservatives have argued a variety of other causes: moral shortcomings, poor work ethic, even intellectual inferiority. Another important question is whether welfare causes poverty.
December 12th, 2005 at 12:31 pm
I’ll guarantee if this was a klansman found guilty of killing four black people, he’d not stand a chance. I think it’s about time to let the criminal pay for their actions. Like the older people say: “If you dance, than you gotta pay the fiddler”. It’s time to pay murderer! Take you medicine like a boy should.
December 12th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Stop abusing each other in this discussion. Stop hating on each other, you can all state your opinions and agree or disagree on the topic without insulting, abusing and disrespecting each other. At the end, god gives life and god takes life! It all under his command. God bless you all and Happy Holidays
December 12th, 2005 at 1:59 pm
Its obvious that the author is very much biased, your last paragraph is a pile of rubbish, the fact that you find it so easy to say proves you will find it harder to do, no one wants to die - period. go for a brain check
December 12th, 2005 at 2:03 pm
by the way check facts on the crucifixion story, the criminal that was forgiven had already being executed,(crucified) before he pleaded forgiveness from Jesus and was forgiven, it was AFTER he had been crucified, and you have no place bringing comparisons because there are no similarities whatsoever, please check facts before you say it, it is obvious u haven’t done, you are passionate yes, but seriously uninformed.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:26 pm
This is a quote by John Ray , posting no 249 “If anyone with half a brain has read my posts from last friday you would understand that this is the correct thing to do economically and socially. All of you ignorant bastards out there, you need to start taking a look in the mirror. All of your people (black people) that are glorified are thugs and criminals. I’d really love to see some black people other than Condi or Colin Powell do something with their lives and realize that you get more from honey than vinegar”——-
Does this comment makes you smarter? Look in the mirror yourself and you will see a hateful soul!
December 12th, 2005 at 2:45 pm
Sounds like the Governator denied Clemecy.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:45 pm
I believe that we have to look at the whole picture. Mr Williams took four lives. There has not been much evidence against that. Also, the people that were killed were at work, making an honest living. I feel empathy for Mr. Williams and his family, don’t get me wrong, but I do believe that people have to take responsibility. Should we as taxpayers pay for shelter and meals for prisoners who decide to do the wrong things and then are on death row using the appeals system as a delay tactic? I don’t think so. I can think of many other things taxpayers would not mind paying for. Better schools for our kids, cleaner communities, drug and crime free communities. The very gangs that Mr. Williams helped to start is tearing down our communities and our families, not helping to build them up. I beleive that we have law that should be abided by and we ultimately have to pay the price for those CHOICES we make. This case shoudl be all the more reason for parents to make sure that they are parents to their kids. Stop letting rappers, movie stars and athletes be your kids role models. YOU BE THE ROLE MODEL. Teach them love, honesty and respect and I guarantee this world would be a lot better place. And this holiday season, instead of being caught up with buying presents, give some one a hug, tell them you love them and spread good cheer.
December 12th, 2005 at 2:47 pm
Too bad for Tookie, have a nice day tomorrow.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:04 pm
It’s OVER!!!
TOOKIE HAS BEEN DENIED CLEMENCY, AND JUSTICE WILL NOW COMMENCE.
LET THE SWORD OF THAT BEAUTIFUL LADY FALL ON HIS NECK
December 12th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
Thank God the courts and Gov of CA did the right thing and held up what the jury dicided in the first place. This has gone on long enough! Stanley does not deserve any clemency! Stanely not only killed four innocent people and then laughed about it, he killed thousands of innocent girls and boys through his gang, the Crips! May God Bless the Gov and all the people that had to go though this again and again and again! Now the victims and their families can finally have so peacpe!
December 12th, 2005 at 3:24 pm
Patiently I sit reading everyone’s responses, and the bootomline is, I have to ask myself, if I was related to any of the victims, I would indeed WANT the murderer to live with what he has done, to re-live it to the end of his days. Killing him , in my humble opinion is letting him off easy, way too easy. I don’t believe the death penalty will bring back, or ease the pain of losing a loved one. Letting them rot in prison with the thought of why they are there the rest of their natural life suits me more than fine……think about it…
December 12th, 2005 at 3:25 pm
I wonder if “Tookie” would have found this love in his heart for all the lost children had he not gotten caught?
I am against the death penalty, but do not canonize this scumbag. We reap what we sow.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:33 pm
Proverbs 21:15
When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.
Proverbs 24:24
Whoever says to the guilty, “You are innocent”— peoples will curse him and nations denounce him.
Ecclesiastes 8:11
When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, the hearts of the people are filled with schemes to do wrong.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:38 pm
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
Romans 13:3-5
The sword is a lethal symbol here, symbols for imprisonment were not used (bars, locks, chains ect). Governments hold the death penality by Gods will and it’s his will that they use it for justice. All the christians oposed to the death penalty— back to the book.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
Romans 13:3-5
The sword is a lethal symbol purposfully- God instituted the death penality. the symbol used here is not one of imprisonment (chains, bonds, bars, ect).
December 12th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
well written, people disagreeing are apologists for monsters.
December 12th, 2005 at 3:50 pm
Saw a video lately of a man in Africa i think they cought raping someone. In the video the truck stops and the man is led to the front of the truck..the cops talk to him for a minute then shoot him in the head. We have fed Tookie to long– time to bury the murderer!
December 12th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to the evildoers.
Hmmm…
I think maybe I’ve been a member of the wrong political party.
Because, I’m feeling being joyous right now.
Not because of the impending execution of Spoochie.
But, because Justice is being served.
When you are willing to die for your liberty, then you have earned it.
Just like the people that are willing to die for God, will be his friends.
Tookie was willing to kill and die for that stupid blue bandanna.
And this is his reward. To die in infamy.
I hope that the spirits of those people who lost their lives will be waiting for him on the other side of those gates. I’m sure they will have a fun time eating a hamburger and talking about the sounds he made when he snuffed it.
The Holy Hand Grenade of Justice prevails.
And, those that love Her are joyous.
Goodbye, Tookie. You won’t be missed
December 12th, 2005 at 3:57 pm
The time has come and the clemency denied. As for the families, may you now live in peace. For all the supporters of Tookie, let you not forget the children still mixed up in these torture chambers we call gangs and for all the parents closing there eyes on the streets of California, let this be a wake up call to all who see violence and do not do anything to stop it. We minorities must stop making excuses for our own mistakes and face up to all the challenges we must conquer. Mr. Williams tried to make a right from something he knew was wrong and his own fate was to kill innocent humans then admit his own wrongdoings. We should not make a wrong then try to fix whats right. REST IN PEACE MR. WILLIAMS AND I HOPE THE GOOD YOU TRIED TO DO DURING THE YEARS OF YOUR INCARCERATION ARE FOREVER USED BY YOUR OWN GANG MEMBERS TO PROMOTE PEACE AND NOT VIOLENCE TO YOUR OWN AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE. FIGHT FOR WHATS RIGHT AND LET US NOT FEAR THE WRONG.
Concerned for victims
December 12th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
When it is all said and done, I just hope that kids will see that gangs are not the way to go!!! I also hope this will teach them to make good choices and decisions and remember that choices you make follow you for a lifetime!!!
Peace
December 12th, 2005 at 4:18 pm
I hope that this will deter more of my people from killing each other. I hope that this shows that our country and particularly our black race are sick and tired of the gang killings and our neighborhoods not being safe.
I am sick of not being able to wear blue or red because of some thuggish, wanton loving, assisinine bastards who want to fight over a street that does not belong to them.
We will no longer allow our streets to be overrun with drugs and gangs any longer. I want clean neighborhoods, clean streets, jobs for all, a world wear my children will be able to play without fear of some idiot gangster trying to get them to join.
It may not come to pass, but I will not lose hope.
Gov. Schwarzenegger, at first I was skeptical about your election into government.
But, you have made the right choice, sir.
“Those who live by the sword, shall die by it.”
LEAVE WITH FORGIVENESS, STANLEY WILLIAMS, BUT REST IN PAIN!!!
December 12th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
Mr. Dunbar.
I too know what it is like to have a gun pointed at you, as well as your life being in jeopardy because someone has decided to rob you.
You are not alone. That bus that you rode, I was on there as well, just in a different city.
I have been jumped, too, and I have seen it done to others.
But, my friend, Tookie’s chickens have come home to roost.
And soon, his Crip buddies’ chickens will fry as well.
Keep looking up. One day, the Black Race will be as strong as it was before, and we will live up to our true lineage.
The sooner the better. But then again, better late than never.
Peace.
December 12th, 2005 at 4:40 pm
I’ll be at the counrty club tonight with a bottel of Dom, not the Krystal, and will celebrate the death of one less piece of trash I will have to worry about.
Fuck him and fuck all of you who supported and glorified this LIFETIME CRIMINAL.
I don’t need to show how much smarter I am than you. I just like to point out why the black man will never rise to power. I for one would like to see it happen but it is the black man that is always bringing his own down. Stanley Tookie Williams-case in point. Hopefully we can all live in a dream MLK once had where people would stop hiding behind their race and make excuses for themselves due to it.
Onee more piece for thought- after 12:01 am Tusday this will be the SECOND (=2) of 13 people executed by california who was black. Stop with the race card, rise up and make your ancestors proud. I get sick of hearing all about the black on black crime and I am white. I cannot believe that any black person would not be sick of it as well
December 12th, 2005 at 4:56 pm
Check out my blog to see what the Bible says about the death penalty.
December 12th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
It is truly disheartening to read some of the hateful comments that presumable grown people have written. I can’t wait until your generation is extinct,and I hope your unfortunate offspring did not inherit you blatant diregard for one’s struggle. You will NEVER know or understand an African American’s plight. Stop trying! Because of some of your underlying hatred and bias you are making the world a harder place to live in. With hatred like that in your hearts no wonder Caucasians are the leading ethnicity for suicide victims. It must be horrible to be Caucasian! And we all know that your biggest fear is an educated African American. Just to informed the uniformed, there are many more prominent African Americans in the world today than “Condi” and Colin. Stanley “Tookie” Williams life has made more of an impact in the lives of millions of Americans than you will in your entire existence. Watch out, because we are on the rise, and ignorance of your kind only fuels the fire. Stanley will be a martyr and an inspiration to many, what will you be! Another racist! God forgive us all!
December 12th, 2005 at 5:24 pm
i am against the deathe penalty. maybe i dont know much about the case in general but i have done my research on tookie and i pose this question: society kills tookie. then what? will black america rebel?
December 12th, 2005 at 5:39 pm
Bianca, 284…
Are you mad because Tookie will be put to sleep and maybe your ingnorance will make a statue of Williams and put on your doorstep claiming this man a a MARTYR for all to see in your home. If you so wish, may your brothers and sisters put you in some pedestal so you can explain to children why our American system put to death your so called King of kids to death for killing 4 INNOCENT people. May you also show them the pictures of the crimes and explain his Kingdom of Crips to all kids of all ages to hear Bianca claiming this man a MARTYR for everyone to see the good in him but blind to the bad he himself created. Bianca, please send us all emails to show your true self and claim your prize tonight, then maybe will you have a statue, cause it will be six feet under madame-6 FEET UNDER……….RIP TOOKIE!!!!
Concern for victims
December 12th, 2005 at 6:21 pm
I’m a white. I don’t even live in your country. I live in New Zealand, a place many of you may not even have heard of, but I’d like to give my opinion on this.
I hate the fact that Tookie killed four people and feel great sadness for the victims and their families. In all this debate, you don’t hear them spoken about too much. Those people deserved to live, they didn’t deserve what Tookie did to them.
But, at the same time, the thought that another life is about to be taken - Tookie’s - also fills me with sadness. No matter what evil acts he has committed, he is a human being too and I believe the loss of any human life is to be regretted.
I would have preferred that his life be spared for, once gone, there is no way of getting that life back. Something unique is about to be extinguished in a few hours and, that makes me feel very gloomy.
Has the man been reformed? Is he sorry for his crimes? Who knows. But wouldn’t it have been punishment enough to just keep him locked up for life?
Obviously, this man didn’t cherish the lives of others - at least not at a point in the past - and he thought nothing of snuffing them out. But if we snuff out his, aren’t we just as bad? Aren’t we doing exactly what he did?
My thoughts are with the victims’ families and with Tookie’s family. This will be with them until the day they die.
December 12th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
As an african american male I am thrilled that this low life, less than an excuse for a man will be put to death tonight. The bible says, “You reap what you sow” I don’t care about him finding Jesus in prison, being nominated for a nobel peace prize, or writing a bunch of childrens books. None of this will atone for the cold blooded, vicious murders he bestowed on his victims. What about the families of these victims? I am appauled that this savage is getting all of this attention at the expense of his victims families. He has the nerve to want mercy and petition for clemency? He wants to take every legal means neccessary in order to spare his worthless life, yet he couldn’t do the same for his victims. He will always be a vicious, cold blooded, low life savage murderer…And shortly after 12am he is going to get what he deserves. Now he can continue to write his childrens books while he’s burning in hell. And for all of you idiotic, liberal tookie apologists, look on the bright side…Once he dies, he’ll no longer be a crypt, he’ll be a HELL’S ANGEL. Hahahahaha DIE, BURN, AND SUFFER IN HELL TOOKIE WILLIAMS…CURSE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY…..
Xan
December 12th, 2005 at 6:39 pm
kendra -
Drop the pipe.
December 12th, 2005 at 6:45 pm
NIQUOLE - When I stop laughing at your ridiculous Al Sharpton defense ….I will respond …Jesus, go back to school or read a book. IF people riot, they will gaain burn down their own neighborhoods - If rioters come to the suburbs - we will protect ours - by any means necessary.
December 12th, 2005 at 6:48 pm
Drop the pipe? Listen you mentally bankrupt moron…Let me tell you something….that big fat wide thing that you’re sitting on is called an “ASS” The thing that you have between your ears is called a “BRAIN” Why don’t you try thinking with the right one you freaking idiot……
December 12th, 2005 at 6:54 pm
why would black america rebel? When John wayne Gacy went down did white america rebel? All the blacks get mad because he is black? it’s not like they are killing MLK. Idiot
December 12th, 2005 at 7:10 pm
i do onot agree with u u canot prove he has murder those people and i’m down with tookie to the fullest and i’m happy he founded the crips holla we get’s it crackin
December 12th, 2005 at 7:14 pm
All U motherfuckers who are in favor of killing Tookie can get a fat black dick and stick it up your ass. Im tired of all this bullshit America delivers. Who the fuck has the right to take someones life away. America does not give life so why the hell can they take it away. What if the man is innocent, yet look at y’all, saying its okay to murder him. Well if murder is not tolerated in the mother fuckin U.S. then why does America kill innocent civilians in the middle east. KILL all those soldier who do it then right. what is the damn difference. murder is murder. now just becuase the law says its okay to kill at war do U think it is okay with God. God is a forgiving person and so should we. Im so disgusted with most of U. I mean we all do mistakes and feel redemtion afterwards. All of U at least done one thing wrong and feel redemption because none of us are saints. So if U read this and feel the opposite well FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU ALL who are in favor of killing him. ad FUCK Arnold Schwartzenegger. He is a murderer. I Hope he and U motherfuckers die slow. My 4 4 make sure all your kids dont grow.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
Excellent article if the case was based on the following passage from the Bible:
“At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death”.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:37 pm
You’ve said it yourself “…Who the fuck has the right to take someones life away. ..”
Tookie took 4 lives. So who the fuck give him the right to do so? You stupid idiot.
Write your book in hell.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
I admire him if he has truly found ‘redemption’. But, part of redemption is the acceptance of societal consequences for one’s actions.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
I agree…
DROP THE PIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So it was written, so it shall be done!
December 12th, 2005 at 7:46 pm
Bye Bye Tookie, Bye Bye. Please make your confession and pray for forgiveness.
God bless the victims, Albert Owens, Yen-I Yang, Thsai-Shaic Yang, and Yee Chen Lin.
And God bless the victim’s families and friends. Hopefully, tonight will bring closure
to a tragic story, without any more “lawless” violence. I pray for all of California.
December 12th, 2005 at 7:50 pm
TOOKIE WILL FRY IN HELL WHERE HE BELONGS. THE MINUTES ARE TICKING AWAY…
December 12th, 2005 at 7:59 pm
Pay the piper Tookie! Man, he has it so easy. He took four lives and he’s just gonna drift off to sleep and die. That’s bullshit. No sawed off shotgun to the face, or back, or head, no fear because he’s known this day was coming, he knew when he would most likely die. Not fair. Bring back sparky or the firing squad! And i don’t give two shits what people think. Blacks have it made. Black entertainment television? Why is there no White
entertainment television? Miss Black America? I mean wtf! Seems people do everything they can to appease you, and make things easier because of ancestry but you know what? No more. Fuck that.
December 12th, 2005 at 8:48 pm
SO WHAT IF STANLEY STARTED STARTED THE CRIPS. DO YOU SEE THEM EXECUTING THE WHITE PEOPLE THAT STARTED THE MOB. NO.
THE POLICE COULD HAVE STOPPED ALL THIS GANG MESS WHEN IT FIRST STARTED BUT THEY DIDN’T. THEY SAID LET THEM KILL EACH OTHER SO WE DON’T HAVE TO. BET NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DID THEY THINK IT WOULD BE THIS BAD. PEOPLE ARE ONLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE OWN ACTIONS NOT THE ACTIONS OF OTHERS. LAW ENFORCEMENT SHOULD HAVE STOPPED IT WHEN IT FIRST STARTED NOW THEY MUST SUFFER LIKE THE REST OF US. I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE FOR GANGS I DO BELIEVE IN THE DEATH PENALTY BUT IF THE EVIDENCE DON’T FIT THEY MUST ACCQUIT.
December 12th, 2005 at 8:49 pm
“I would like to say that the time for our society and Black Americans especially, has come to deal in reality. The reality that “Tookie” is a murderer responsible for the deaths of not only 4 innocent persons. But he is also a founding member of the Crips which by itself places the blood of a few thousand others on him as well. And to this day the Crips continue to destroy lives in our cities nation wide. This is directly attributable to him.”
Let’s Not forget that he has also saved thousands of lives by encouraging kids to NOT join gangs…I want you to think about that
He does not deserve to die…
December 12th, 2005 at 8:55 pm
HEY, JIM CROW! Are you familiar with the Willie Lynch document? How about our basic Black African history? You know the one where all the black people were murdered at the snap of a finger and without cause, or maybe just because of the color of their skin.
So what if one of my people is given a little compassion or spared the rod in lieu of the millions they killed of us. Who’s being punished for those crimes? The same white faces still exist in D.C. , in fact one the oldest is 86 years old in the Senate and there is no way you can tell me that he wasn’t racist. Yet, he still has power, prestige and the covenant of his people….So, why shouldn’t we look after our own?
That’s our problem we don’t do it………and why…well, take time to read the Willie Lynch letter and who knows maybe you’ll wake up.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:05 pm
Hey, I just wanted to leave a comment on this page regarding Tookie. I know a lot of people here are saying that Tookie should die because he killed so many people and I do agree if he did in fact kill them, he should. But the sad thing is that our great “justice” system is only about 70% accurate. Would you be willing to bet your life that Tookie is in deed guilty if you only had a 70% chance of winning? Would you be willing to replace him in that room if you knew that there is a 30% chance that you might be wrong? Were you there when the victims were killed? Why did one of those guys receive immunity, wasnt he also a criminal? I do not know too much about the case, but there might be a chance that he might be innocent. If you guys ever lived in an area infested with thugs and hoodlums and have lived through it, you might understand what I am trying to say here. Why would they want to go for the little guy, when they could go for the shot caller and maybe present what might be coming to them in the future if these kids kept gang banging. I read on one of the comments that this would bring closure to the families and if Tookie is indeed the murderer he should be killed for it. Well, would it be fair to kill some guy that could be innocent of the crime just for closure when it could be someone else????
December 12th, 2005 at 9:28 pm
I do believe in redemption. I do agree with many things you say. Many times we get caught up in the sensationalism created by the media, hollywood and leading politicians. I do think we have forgotten about the poor people murdered and their families. As a society we focus so much on how people show how they change through big books and fancy words. God said to do it in hiding so you would not receive glory but that He would. It is just bothers me that he plastered his face on all of these books he ghost wrote. His name would have been enough, but I think he wanted publicity. I do ache for his family and his soul if he is not ready to go. I pray all involved will have some sort of peace from this matter after tonight. As for the Crips, he led them. It is one of the most horrible group of people in the United States, but they are lost. Until the Lord brings them to their knees they will be around, unfortunately.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:28 pm
Tookie has had an army of lawyers attempting to save his ass. I’d put the chances of Tookie being guilty a bit higher than 70%.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:34 pm
SOME OF YOU WOULD HAVE VALID POINTS IF YOU HAD NOT USED SUCH VULGAR LANGUAGE. HECK, BY THE RESPONSES OF MANY OF YOU, I HOPE YOU DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN. NO ONE BUT GOD AND THE PEOPLE INVOLVED KNOW WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT FATEFUL NIGHT. EVERYONE IS A LOSER IN THIS SITUATION. NOT JUST THE PEOPLE DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE DECISIONS THIS MAN HAS MADE, BUT SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. IF YOU THINK THE DEATH PENALTY IS A DETERRENT, YOU’RE CRAZY. I WILL LEAVE MY TOMORROW WITH THE SAME FEARS FOR MINE AND MY FAMILIES SAFETY UNTIL, I PRAY, WE ARE TOGETHER AGAIN LATER IN THE EVENING. I AM NOT FOR OR AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY, I AM FOR JUSTICE. WILL JUSTICE BE SERVED BY KILLING THIS MAN….MAYBE; BUT, AT LEAST HE CAN STAND BEFORE THE LORD AT 12:02 THIS MORNING AS SAY HE TRIED TO BALANCE THE SCALES AND RIGHT SOME WRONGS. CAN YOU? ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE PERFECT LIVES CAN SLEEP WELL TONIGHT BECAUSE ALL CRIME WILL BE GONE TOMORROW BECAUSE BIG BAD TOOKIE IS DEAD. THOSE OF YOU WHO ROLL OUT OF THE BED AFTER SLEEPING WITH SOMEONE ELSE’S SIGNIGICANT OTHER — YOU DIDN’T KILL ANYONE, RIGHT? YEAH, YOU MAY RUIN LIFE AS SOME LITTLE KID KNOWS IT, BUT YOU AREN’T TOOKIE. AND THAT MONEY YOU STOLE FROM YOUR MOM’S PURSE TO BUY THE DRUGS, IT’S ONLY RENT MONEY. YOU DIDN’T KILL HER.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
i would fuck him up the bum then kill him nice ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
December 12th, 2005 at 9:42 pm
Imagine if even 1/4 of the efforts being put in to save Tookie’s life were used to prevent gang violence or help inner city kids turn their lives around. Time for Tookie to go. He was a cold-blooded murdered who has NEVER apologized. Good thing Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Mike Farrell and all those other band-wagoners had some reason to be on TV this week.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
Jane Goodall will be witnessing it.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:50 pm
Well since we are living in such a forgiving society and believe that someone who commits crimes can change, why don’t we just let Saddam go? I’m pretty sure he’s changed too, even though he hasn’t written a few books, give him time, he’s gotta find a good publisher.
December 12th, 2005 at 9:52 pm
This is not a racial issue, people. The government doesn’t only execute BLACK people. Didn’t hear about Karla Faye Tucker? Pick-ax murderer from Texas? Pretty white lady. Go google her name. She was truly redeemed and she was denied clemency. She was put to death. She paid for her crime. So will Tookie.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
Last month I was the foreman on a jury in a murder case. I can honestly say that it is something that has had a permanent affect on my life. I don’t have an opinion on if Tookie Williams killed 4 people or not but the jury found him guilty and as a society of laws, unless overturned, we must accept their verdict. I used to watch Law and Order, and follow trials on Court TV, playing armchair juror. But unless you are in court every single day, and you look in the eyes of every single witness, heard all the judges instructions, and you deliberate with 11 others until you are all in agreement, you’re in no position to second guess the jury. I don’t care how many transcripts you read, it’s not the same.
Having said that, I am upset by the level of viciousness shown by those opposing clemency. On its face it is wrong. Condemning a man to death or even life in prison without parole is a monumental responsibility. It shouldn’t be treated with such disrespect. Fortunately I live in Michigan where we have banned the death penalty. I am personally opposed to it and would have never made it past the voir dire process (jury selection) had I lived in a state that had it. I would not have been able to sentence even a multiple murderer to death and would have been excused by the prosecutor. No good will come of Mr. Williams’ execution.
My jury found our defendant guilty of murder in the 1st degree and next month he will be sentenced to life in prison without parole the only possible sentence under Michigan law. I feel tremendous pain for the victim and his family, even though he was a gun carrying drug dealer. I feel tremendous pain for the defendant and his family, even though I have no doubt he viciously murdered his victim. His life was never much and it is almost sure to amount to less in prison…but maybe…just maybe he’ll find a way to do something worthwhile.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
If anyone believes that you can kill four people, create a notorious banger group called the Crips, write a few childrens books , be nominated for a nobel peace prize ,corrupt American society and spend 20+ years in jail and think your exonerated your joking.How much life has been wasted by this man’s creation of this felonious group the crips?How many children tormented by others just to be cool?How many Police Officers killed to be part of the gang? This man is a virus to our country.And like all bad viruses the vaccination is execution.Our country is the greatest nation on earth and will be for a very long time so get use to this type of vaccination of viruses or move to a country like Canada or where ever else you hippie liberals run to.In the words of some of you readers “Fuck that piece of shit”.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:20 pm
Very well written and I agree on most grounds. As a citizen, I have always been personally for the death penalty mainly for redemption of the victims families. As a Christian, I can’t really support it because I can’t find any evidence that Jesus would have. So, as a voter, I don’t vote based on this issue. However, I’m for the execution of ‘Tookie’. If he was to get off, then it would not be fair to the thousands of others that have been executed. It would show that once again celebrity status holds more weight than the legal system. If he was granted clemency then every person in America should be granted clemency. He committed much worse crimes than many others that have been on death row and still are.
December 12th, 2005 at 10:22 pm
FIRST - XAN - read the post before you flame on ….
SECOND - “tookie do not deserve to die after what the white man did back in the day feel me.”
What? Are you like 200 years old? I am so sick of the slave days shit - get over it. My ancestry is Irish - we were treated like shit for FAR much longer than blacks - Read a book, go to school. Do you think your life sucks because you are in America? David Brandon - you are one simple flash dumbass.
Feel that.
THIRD - “FUCK AMERICA” ….you wouldn’t last three minutes on the streets of Lagos, so get off the Anti-America thang. You wouldn’t know shit w/o MickeyD’s and PS2 ….you wouldn’t have your momma to protect you with a hizzouse. Bring your “4 4″. I’m scoped and would hit your slow draggin ass before you got yo strawberry soda opened punkass biatch. I love the lameass threat. Bring your tired mouthy ass to the suburbs - we can afford weapons AND training trick. Oh wait - you will be busy burning down your own neighborhood - I forgot. Perhaps we can arrange a meeting - say 12:30PM? That would give you time to sleep in and yet still make your probation meeting …who am I kidding? You wouldn’t actually GO to probation meeting …trust me, you wouldn’t feel a thing.
IN CLOSING:
Like it or not, there is a reason rich white people are in charge folks. One reason: Our sons and daughters work hard at school/jobs, do not depend on a jump shot to fulfill their destiny and aren’t blowin’ guys in an alley for a rock ….
Feel DAT
December 12th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Where were the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons to fight for this man’s clemency when he was so wrongly convicted? I just saw Al Sharpton on MSNBC say there was no credible evidence - so why are you just now on TV.
And if Tookie is ‘redeemed’ shouldn’t he have the nerve to stand up and tell all the worthless Bloods and Crips “This is what happens when you kill someone”
Now that would show redemption!
December 12th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
Hey Aiming, you are the the spitting image of Tookie with that rhetoric, you are exactly what Tookie is accused of being
so how do we know that you didn’t kill the people at the store? You are so ready to kill, and you are training for what?
You don’t need a weapon for peace. Ignorance and violence are the rule of the day in america. Thats why God sends one man
of peace at a time, because there’s so many people like you in the world. All that hatred, man, be careful you might kill
a child with that paranoid mentality.
A Salaam Alaikum
December 12th, 2005 at 10:43 pm
If he is innocent, God will caress and guide him unto his Kingdom.
As a black man in LA, I can say this is not an issue of race. It is not a black/white/brown/yellow or red thing; it’s a green thing. Want change? Better yourself and the world will turn.
The LAPD expects this type of upheaval; do not play to it. Call me if you are in need.
In Service,
FATher B Urger, Jr
(310) 319-1850
December 12th, 2005 at 10:51 pm
justaman - “Peace be to you” I wish I could trust it. I spent time in Kuwait and Iraq, so I respectfully decline. A voice of reason from the “religion of peace” is anything BUT ….I received my training from the ever vigilant USMC defending against your peaceful Kalishnikovs …Dont get in my kitchen unless you have something to serve. I have the BALLS enough to say what I mean. Allahu Akbar ….yadda yadda yadda. Take a hike.
Please never offer to defend me should I ever need representation, ok?
December 12th, 2005 at 10:58 pm
Furtermore, Aiming you must be very young or very stupid, there are some rich white people hold the same bars as
poor brothers, so crime is not a racial thing, its a greed or need thing!! Ha Ha. Out here in Oregon we have a serious
Methamphetamine problem, guess what? It’s white people!!! Did I shock you yet? Did you get a nice dose of reality?
I think you area funny guy, you can’t speak on slavery or the condidtion thereof, just like I can’t speak on being Irish,
but come on man, what you are saying is plain ignorant, the tired insults, when you look at it there are more whites on
welfare than blacks, we don’t make up that much of the population. Make peace not war, that requires a little knowledge.
Tookies pending execution is not going to prevent man from killing man, not going to bring the dead loved ones back or stop the
sun from shining. Crime is crime, and no good deed goes unpunished.
A Salaam Alaikum
December 12th, 2005 at 11:00 pm
When “Tookie” ran the streets he took advantage of the opportunities he had to be the “bigger, badder man” or
more “armed and dangerous” to destroy lives without taking any time to consider the value of the life he was destroying. His only worry was fulfilling his own wants and desires the easiest way possible no matter who got hurt in the process. Well “Tookie” got caught up by that other “bigger, badder man” or more “armed and dangerous”……….the California State criminal justice system. No matter what happens with this mess, we all better hope that if the day ever comes where our life’s value is judged we get as much consideration as the state of California as well as the rest of the US has given to “Tookie” and alot more than he ever gave to his victims, whoever they may have been.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:01 pm
Tookie will make his own gurgling noises in 3 hours and 3 minutes…I will be the one saying, “Thank you God”.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:07 pm
All that said my friend, the streets here are no safer than than they were the day you went to Kuwait, Columbine style
shootings still happen, the Iraqis are still fighting and people are still dying, over nothing but what another man tells them to do.
I choose to live my life on my terms on my feet. Not by the words of a master. I hope you are proud of the good fight that you are
putting up over there. But if you killed someone, that makes you a killer, no different than “Tookie”, after all, he supposedly
took a life (lives) by his own hand, and that made him a killer subject to death, what makes your situation so different?
December 12th, 2005 at 11:13 pm
justaman - yet I am educated, have a wonderful home, a great career and loving family. I must be horribly stupid indeed.
It is typical of a black man to toss the race card - thanks for continuing the trend. Any time a black man gets in trouble, somehow it is a rich white man’s fault.
Call your father (if you know him)and tell him how bad your spelling is …oh, wait that must be my fault too. I grew up in a school that was 41% black, so do not go there.
You are correct, there are more WHITES on welfare - by total:
Race
————–
White 38.8%
Black 37.2
Hispanic 17.8
Asian 2.8
Other 3.4
YET, based on people using Welfare you have stuck your own foot up your ass. There are far more white people in AMERICA than blacks , so this means there are FAR MORE BLACKS per capita - on Welfare.
This is too easy - can I get a smart challenger?
December 12th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
Hey Ky_redneck, what about the clan and the aryan brotherhood, and all those gangs, shouldn’t they be tracked down
prosecuted, convicted and executed for the needless cold blooded killings over the years, they have performed over the years, after all
there is no statute of limitations on murder. Tookie didn’t start it nor will it end with his demise. Question to you is
is justice measured in black and white or a rainbow if colors?
December 12th, 2005 at 11:16 pm
justaman - look up the definitions of “Killer” and “Murderer”. This endeth the lesson.
smile.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:28 pm
If you kill some you are a killer, period.
kill·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klr)
n.
One that kills: a disease that was a killer of thousands; a killer of new ideas.
v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.
To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce.
Slang. Something that is extremely difficult to deal with or withstand: an exam that was a real killer.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:29 pm
LET JUSTICE BE DONE, END HIS LIES!!!!
December 12th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
Tookie made the choices he made as a cop out for a hard life. Crime is the easy way out. Working your way out of a hopeless situation takes guts, character, honor, none of which he has. I am sick and tired of hearing excuses about the “hard life”. There will ALWAYS be people out there who are worse off than you. You become a gangbanger not because you have a hard life, because you don’t have the guts to duke it out. It’s easy money. Robbing people, ripping people, stealing cars…easy money. You killed 4 people. If you didn’t, you were there at the scene willingly. You are guilty. You made your choice, now the choice is made for you. See you in hell.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
Has everyone forgotten this man is a convicted killer. He commited these crimes and let me tell you, after 20+ years I would bet I would not be the same person I was back then either. That does not change anything, he commited the crimes and was foung guilty. If he was put to death the same day he was convicted of the crimes nobody would think twice about it again. But the fact that this man kept himself busy for 20+ years while sitting in his cell and wrote books to pass his time and tried to make himself look “good” in the eyes of the public, it does not change the fact of what he did.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:33 pm
It’s a sad commentary that I hear black Leaders talk about todays youth need to have somebody look up to, and the only person they can find is a convicted killer, is this who we want black youth to look up to?
December 12th, 2005 at 11:40 pm
It’s easy to play the race card. But racism is very real ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. I am neither white nor black. But it’s an excuse. Blacks aren’t the only victims in this world. Look around you. There are victims everywhere. Look at the Jewish people. (Hitler) Look at the Asians (Vietnam, A-Bomb). Look at the Russians. Do you think they don’t feel it too? I mean do you honestly think that you have it worse than all those Jews that were “exterminated”? Come on now.
I don’t want to sound cruel, but if you hate it so much then try living in Africa. It’s probably worse there than here. Not to say what happened here was right. It was dead wrong. Slavery and everything. DEAD WRONG. But let’s all stop playing the victim and live life.
I mean, do you know how many times I’ve been called Chink, Jap, Nip, Gook? I’ve been threatened by “locals” and such, and it scarred me for life. But I still try to move on. Not form a gang and put fear in people, although sometime I understand that feeling.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:41 pm
I think this article was poorly written and does not prove the point the author seeks to put out. None the less I commend the author for standing up for his beliefs. It is important that we have open dialogue on critical issues such as these. I personally do not have an opinion on Tookie. Both sides have valid points. What I am concerned about it the violence that continues in the African-American community and society in general. I highly doubt Tookie’s death will change any of it. Therefore once he is gone, which he should be by the time I post this, then what? No need to think about Tookie’s redemption at this point. The question then becomes: who will redeem us all from ourselves?
December 12th, 2005 at 11:47 pm
What Would Jesus Do? In a “Christian” country, it’s sad that true forgiveness is non-existent for so many. God bless you all and Stanley Williams.
http://terrencesays.blogspot.com/2005/12/abolish-death-penalty.html
December 12th, 2005 at 11:56 pm
And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
– Exodus 21: 23-25 (KJV)
December 13th, 2005 at 12:00 am
^Thou shall not lie! Are you lying about your name?
December 13th, 2005 at 12:13 am
If you (the writer of the article above) are going to argue points of the law, whether we agree with it or not, then we must stick to that. The penalty he is serving is for the murder of certain individuals on a given night. He was not on trial for creating the crips gang. Therefore it cannot be considered as an offense for which he should be put to death unless another charge was brought before him. To say the he should be put to death regardless for other crimes committed not considered in the murder trial is argue your opinion and ethics. In regard to the trial in question, it was clear that the prosecutor improperly dismissed jurors bases on skin color and improperly used racial slurs to taint the view of the defendant in the view of the jury. It also appears to be clear that there was not sufficient evidence to convict Mr. Williams had he had sufficient representation. This is a problem with the legal system that must be addressed. Perhaps he should be put to death for other crimes committed, but that is not how our legal system works. Unless other charges are brought before him, the specific murders are what he is being put to death for and I cannot say that I am convinced that the law was correctly applied to this case. For similar case see the case files for Ruben Cantu who was executed on insufficient proof. His case is now being reviewed by the San Antonio District Attorney. It is important to our legal system that there not be any reasonable doubt as to his guilt and that he was afforded every possible defense and that the prosecution not trample his rights as a citezen. It does not seem that this occurred regardless of his other crimes or whether or not he is a good person. The facts simply are not there
December 13th, 2005 at 12:26 am
He’s gonna die, we all know that. But, if he didn’t start the Crips, you know someone else would’ve, probably not the same name, but the same gang, nonetheless. Does he deserve to die? Not sure. Should he be exonerated? Probably not. Anyways, to me it comes down to this: either stop the death penalty or stop crying about it. If the majority of Americans want to ban it, VOTE already, and stop CRYING!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 12:33 am
Amen David!!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams killed those people and there was ballistics evidence traced to his gun. His two friend that he hung out with reported that he confessed to both of them. I am convinced that Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams did kill people violently for little or no reason. Regardless of his new jailhouse halo and stuff. He should have thought twice before he killed those people. He referred to the Asian family that he killed as “Buddha-Heads” as he confessed to a friend.
I am against the death penalty, but I feel that Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams is most definitely guilty.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:02 am
Well articulated. This murderous crip deserves the slowest, most painful death imaginable. The tiny little prick of the needle and peaceful slipping off into sleep is nothing compared to the shotgun blasts this pig inflicted on innocent people. Let him die none the less. May God have mercy on his soul. He deserves none here.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:04 am
Check the time of my blog.
Bye-bye Tookie. The needle just stuck him! Boo-hoo-hoo.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:04 am
Justice!
December 13th, 2005 at 2:17 am
DING DONG TOOKIE’S GONE….
December 13th, 2005 at 2:17 am
I find that people opposed to the death penalty wish to bring up so-called “redemption” and other “contributions” to society, such as children’s books. These things have absolutely nothing to do with the crime committed. At the same time, they also find fault with pro-death penalty thought to bring up the creation of the Crips. I’m fine with both sides admitting that neither anything done before nor after the crimes committed have any relevance to the punishment. If the crime was proven in court without a reasonable doubt (and in this case, unable to be challenged for 23 years), then the punishment by law to fit the crime must be carried out. End of story. That said, I cannot believe that any one person would want to put themselves into a situation where a consequence for their action would be death. For people’s inability to do the right thing, I mourn.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:52 am
It’s to bad the victims couldn’t beg for their life that long!
December 13th, 2005 at 3:05 am
Sweet Dreams, you murdering bastard. May you feel guilt for all eternity for what you have done.
December 13th, 2005 at 3:34 am
People need to stop thinking about all the bad he has done and think about all the good he is doing. I think Tookie is a good person and if I had a chance to meet him I would.
Comment by Shanjae Gilbert — 11/30/2005 @ 10:52 am
You cannot be serious when you say this!! Stop thinking about the bad he has done?? Think about the good?? Lets start with the first part (the bad he has done). Lets see, he starts one of the nations largest gangs that is responsible for hundreds, probably thousands of deaths in America. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being “burn in hell evil and 1 being “you have earned your wings”) I rate this about a 50!! To think that people could actually support someone like this is just appalling to me. Then in 1979 he brutally murders 4 people in cold blood. Who knows how many people this guy killed and didn’t get caught, or just how many deaths he had a hand in by putting a hit out on a “blood” member. This man is pure evil and I have a feeling you would have a different opinion had he killed your family. Lets say he killed your mother, your father, and your sister. Would you, 20+ years later say “Oh well, so he killed my whole family, big deal, he is a changed man”. I think not!!
Now lets talk about all the so-called “good” he has done. Do you really think he did all this on his own? I would be willing to bet my life savings that his lawyers were telling him he needed to do these things to start getting a good name just for the purpose of saving his own ass!! I for one do believe that his books were “ghost-written” probably by some one close to one of his attorneys. This was an unsuccessful attempt to keep from dying. As for all these celebrities that arte supporting this waste of skin, shame on you. You are supposed to be role models. I pray that no kids are looking up to your actions now. What would all these people be doing if this was a white man under the same circumstances? They would more than likely be in support of his death. Everyone makes this a race issue in saying that “the only reason they are killing him is because he is black”. Well, I make your support of him a race issue, the only reason you support him is because he is black!!!
In closing, god bless the families of his victims (that would be the family of any person killed by a crip. “Tookie” is responsible for it!! May the souls of your family members rest more easily now that justice will be served.
December 13th, 2005 at 3:35 am
He has attoned for his sin’s, though they be murder. He is gone, executed for crime’s he committed. He was allowed to go peacefully, his victim’s, not. Tookie will be judged by GOD Almighty, and from there, he will suffer in eternal hell and damnation. May your soul burn in hell forever Tookie, and God Bless those he took too early. ” Live by the sword, die by the sword.” ” If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime…”
December 13th, 2005 at 4:12 am
You all make me laugh. Those of you who think that because he is black, people are supporting him. Whether the man was a white, black, asian, hispanic, american, european, or whatever he still says that he was innocent. He says that he is guilty not of murdering those 4 innocent people but other wrongs. The man appologized, and tried to keep youth of this world from following his path. Whould it have been the same if he weren’t THE FOUNDER of THE CRIPS. I am sure it would have. But it is too late for that. I am not sad that the man is gone. I did not know him, nor did any of you. Yet you all sit and condemn him to eternal damnation. So, I guess since you believe in such, then you also know that God will condemn YOU for judging what you do not know. Its funny how most of you also probably do not believe in punishing your children. But you condemn a man to death because they think he might have pulled the trigger. Yet no one but two of his so called friends place him at the scene. Still though at the scene but NO pulling the trigger. I know that when your child doesn’t want to be punished they will claim innocent, yet at the scene and since you can not prove fully there guiltiness, you do punish him but not with the worst. All I ask is let God be the Man’s Judge. Because if he was innocent and murdered than you who do judge him will definately feel the WRATH of THE ALMIGHTY. He wants us to forgive not 7 times but more than 77 times. Now go read the GOOD BOOK and think about all that you have said to these people. Eye for an Eye, yes is what the bible says. But we no longer live by the Mosaic LAW. So just forgive and move forward with your lives.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:18 am
Mr. John, May Gods Blesing be upon you for you know not what you say. Love your enemy… If you can’t then how can you have love for God.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:49 am
12/13 Fuck ya Tookie, ya a good Nigger Now. Now, there are Black
people and White People, of good will everywhere, but ole Tookie
was not nor had he ever been one of them. He was a mean Nigger,
not a mean Black Person, thus, he was just as soon rob, stab,
shoot, rape, gangbang, beat the shit otta a black guy or gal as
anyone else, not just white folks, who he hated with a passion.
So, Tookie, ya got what ya sowed, and eye for an eye, a tooth for
a tooth say the Good Book. Barney
December 13th, 2005 at 4:55 am
I feel that it is wrong to execute in any way eg. hung, shot or lethal injected.
stanley ‘tookie’ williams has suffered around 25 years in jail for a crime
he did not committ. yes he has done bad but remember all the good he did,
he saved women and children from being killed or robbed on the streets, just
think of all the added people that would have died if it wasn’t for him and his gang.
put yourself in his shoes, he has spent 25 years or more in jail waiting and watching
time tick by and knowing that sooner or later he will be EXECUTED!
25 years thinking of that i think that he has done his time and does not deserve to die.
just think you execute him and think of how many young kids out there will think
well if there alowed to kill why cant we and then they will start killing everyone.
so please reconsider your dision of executing Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams.
he DOES NOT deserve to die if he did not commit the crimes.
thanks
December 13th, 2005 at 4:57 am
oh and the letter above was writin by me alysha and im 13 years old and i think
really strongley about these kinda of things thankyou for listening to my
oppinion.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:32 am
Dec. 13. 2005.
I wanted to start this paragraph off by stating some not-so-nice things about you, your narrow-minded thinking, and exactly where I feel you should put your conclusions on this matter but then I realized I’d be displaying the same ignorance that obviously can be found within you (and many people on this board) and it is quite evident, based on the events that took place leading to Stanley Williams’ death at 12:35 AM this morning that the last thing this world needs is ignorance… or another you.
The death penalty is wrong. Period. What is the difference between a fatal shooting and a lethal injection? Only the course of action - ultimately, they both result in death. So, why is it right to administer a lethal injection, with intention to take away one’s life? Because it’s the LAW?. The fact of the matter is, it’s murder, period. So whether it be by gun violence, foul play, a needle, or electric chair, it’s wrong.
I don’t see why Life without parole was so out of the question. He was nominated for Nobel peace prizes, and literature prizes, had good behavior - He had a change of heart and demonstrated it within everything he did. He realized what he has started has caused and really tried to aid in the unity of our “gang banging” teens… truthfully speaking, even if all his attempts were not sincere, he would still be spending the rest of his days behind bars, he wouldn’t be out roaming the streets and causing havoc, so my question is, why? Why was it so out of the question?
People make mistakes, some mistakes are bigger than others’. But in the end, we change. He was only 13 when he Co-founded the Crips, 13. At that age, no adolescent is fully aware of the consequences of his/her actions. Stanley has changed a lot of lives, some, obviously negatively, but for the most part, he’s changed a lot of lives for the better. He has given hope to youth who once felt there was no other way. . . You were just too narrow-minded to see this. You focused on only negative things, when clearly, there are a lot of positives as well.
This isn’t just about Stanley Williams… No, No, Not at all… It’s about everyone waiting to die and the many people who already have. Haven’t enough people died? I guess not… and it’s a result, of people thinking the way you do.
I hope you should never find yourself in a uncompromising predicament because the same laws you swear by, might just be the laws that plot your demise.
As I get older, I only wish, my grandchildren can see a day of change.
The ignorance must end.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:43 am
He is dead. About damn time. I hope they do not spend to much tax money getting rid of his wasted flesh. Maybe they can just feed him to the dogs or something.
December 13th, 2005 at 6:42 am
Ok, First of all, to Ashley. I can appreciate your opinion, and I realize you are only 13 and you heart is probably in the right place, but really, how can you say this man is innocent? Do you have some kind of proof that the jury that convicted him did not see? To everyone that thinks he is innocent, where is this so called proof that people have? Why did they wait until now to say they have it? Obviously there was no proof or the supreme court would have stayed the execution. Even if he were not guilty of the 4 murders, like I said before, how many others were committed by his hand or by his orders for a hit to be carried out. I would venture to guess quite a few.
Secondly, to Mr. Anonymous that is so against the death penalty. I am just curious what you would want to see happen to the guy that murders your wife or children. Do you forgive and just talk about all the “good” he has done. The victims and the victims families are forgotten too quickly. Ashley said Tookie “suffered” in jail for 25 years. SUFFERED??? What do you think the families have gone through? They never get to see their loved one again. There loved ones were shot in cold blood with no regard to human life, so should we end Tookie Williams’ life with no regard?? ABSOLUTELY. Why do people feel so sorry for this bucket of slime? Don’t worry everyone, he is in a warm place now.
I also just want to say, as far an me being condemned by god for judging him… Like Stormin Norman said: “It is not our job to judge, that is Gods job. It is only our job to set up the meeting”!!
God bless the victims of Stanley Williams
December 13th, 2005 at 6:57 am
One more thing: It wasn´t this guy Stanley Williams who founded the crips it was the sick society you guys live in.
Now… think first before you swear at me…..!
December 13th, 2005 at 6:57 am
How can you accuse and judge someone. A sin is a sin. Obviously you have no knowledge where he is coming from.Talk what you know. My brother etv are members of this “gang” that you speak bad upon.Talk what you know and stop saying shit that you have no knowledge of. People were the ones who took C’s out of proportion.Every man has sinned and it all appears the same in christ’s eyes.An eye for an eye makes the whole world die.Ghandi, BIBLE, had some version of this particular quote.I feel for the young people especially
African Americans that have turned this into violence but, how dare you political quick to bad mouth motherfuckers talk down upon them.Williams is a person just like you.Check yourself because you have sinned just like him, me, etc has.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:22 am
Every entry on this board is written by someone guilty of something that is not accepted by a lot of our population. Perhaps not murder, not rape, not incest, but something that is not approved of. I become amused when the writers talk about coming before their god on judgment day, and having to answer for all their sins. Let me give you my take on that. The god you think they must answer to must be an evil, evil god, and I’ll tell you why. Your god has killed millions through what we refer to as natural disasters (hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, floods, earthquakes, and the list goes on), but you continue to think of your god as a kind and merciful spirit. BS!! Tookie Williams is dead and he will remain wherever his family puts him. He does not
have to appear before god or anyone else. He has paid SOCIETY for his sins, but not
because some god said it was right or wrong. He paid because humans said he was wrong.
I know this will garner a lot of flack, but that’s okay, because I won’t be reading it
anyway.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:23 am
I have read some of these responses and I feel that everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, no one knows what happened with Tookie Williams, but GOD, and that’s only for Tookie to face. Just as you all need to focus on your life and try to make things better than trying to judge somebody else. I think people really need to focus on getting themselves prepared for their own judgement than trying to execute others with their devilish words. “Thoughts become into words, as words become into action”. We all need to pray for one another and ask GOD for forgiveness for the things we do intentionally and non-intentionally. GOD bless. Peace on Earth as it is in HEAVEN!
December 13th, 2005 at 8:30 am
To all you Tookie supporters:
Here is what your “Model Inmate” was up to in prison.
While Williams’ celebrity cheerleaders have claimed he has been a model prisoner throughout his sentence and have pointed to this as evidence of his rehabilitation, the DA’s report contains 11 examples of incidents for which he was disciplined, beginning in 1981 and continuing through 1993. They include:
* a violent fight with another inmate June 30, 1981, in which he repeatedly struck the prisoner while kneeling over him;
* a refusal to line up for a return to his cell Jan. 26, 1982, in which he threatened a guard;
* throwing a chemical substance in the eyes of a guard Jan. 28, 1982, in an attack that resulted in chemical burns and emergency treatment;
* a second attack on a guard with a chemical substance Jan. 29, 1982;
* an attack on another inmate Feb. 16, 1984, in which Williams only stopped beating the prisoner when a warning shot was fired;
* a threat to kill a guard June 8, 1984;
* the beating of another inmate July 4, 1986 that only ceased when armed officers arrived on the scene;
* another fight with an inmate that led to his own stabbing, reportedly retaliation for his ordering another inmate to be stabbed;
* his continued association with the Crips street gang led to administrative segregation Oct. 19, 1988;
* the beating of another inmate Dec. 24, 1991, that only stopped after a warning shot was fired;
* another fight with other inmates July 6, 1993, in which a stabbing instrument (shank) was recovered.
The DA’s report also says Williams threatened all of the jurors after they found him guilty.
“Specifically, the defendant looked at the jurors and said he ‘was going to get all’ of them,” said the report. “After learning of this threat, the trial judge inquired of the jury foreperson. The foreperson confirmed the defendant mouthed the words ‘I’m going to get each and every one of you m—–f——.”
But other than all this….. He was a great guy…..YEAH RIGHT!!! Please die a slow and painful death you piece of scum!!
December 13th, 2005 at 8:36 am
This might have been stated but Justaman….Did you know that there are more white people in the USA. I wonder why there are more white people are on welfare. Look at the percentage of people on welfare. about 38%-39% are white and about 35% are black. Take those numbers into the population trends and there is a higher percentage of black people on welfare. Who’s the dummy now.
December 13th, 2005 at 8:53 am
Hey Markus,
Bet your parents werent yelling that BS while we SAVED your asses in WWII. Ingrate
December 13th, 2005 at 8:56 am
Dookie go bye bye
December 13th, 2005 at 9:11 am
You honestly have no clue as to what you are talking about. The Death Penalty is a cruel punishment. I feel deeply for the victims but people can change and the State could have used Tookie as a tool for the children who are brought up in gangs. These kids need a role model and how closer could you get then Tookie. These kids now realize that no matter what you do to change your life, you are still labels a gang banger. For you to be judge and jury is wrong. If he were truly guilty he would have been executed long time ago, not 2 plus years later! 2 wrongs do not make a right.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:14 am
The dood’s a murderer.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:53 am
This discussion is quite interesting despite the poorly written “article” that sparked it. Most of the comments made have been grounded on strictly interpreted scriptures or read out of historical biblical context. This is a dangerous road to take; that is, unless you are a religious fundamentalist (remember this is the claim by which right wing/reactionary conservatives support the invasion of a small sovereign state; Iraq for those who can’t figure it out) that islamic fundamentalists are all terrorists. But the case of Tookie Williams is different. He was not considered a terrorist as defined today. What is important is that Tookie’s life started in a negative way (founder of Crips gang) and finished by helping others, at least, to see the dangers of gang life and the consequences of thuggish activities. His books, no evidence of a ghost writer by the way, have inspired, motivated, and educated many people around the world. So something good did come out of such a sad and wasted moment back in 1979 regardless if Tookie was the shooter.
Let’s consider the death penalty for a second and the cruelty of it. It does no good in a “civilized” society as ours pretends to be. A sentence of life in prison without parole would be a better alternative. This alternative would give time for the legal justice system to correct itself in the case of new found evidence; in which case someone could be found not-guilty and released. But death row would not allow for such outcomes. Looking at it from a broader perspective not just in the United States (some of you think the U.S. is alone in the world; remember this is an inter-related and inter-connected world, globalized with multiple consequences by any event at home). All international human rights declarations, conventions and covenants stipulate that everyone has the “right to life, liberty and security of person.” The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted and proclaimed by UN General Assembly resolution 217A (III) on December 10, 1948. Forty-eight nation-states voted in favor (including the UNITED STATES), none against, with eight abstentions. The Declaration is not in itself a legally binding document, but it did provide the essentials for subsequent documents, particularly the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights, both of which have force under international law. Taken together, these form the International Bill of Rights. The international human rights standards that have been adopted by the United Nations and by regional organizations since 1948 prohibit all forms of “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” This includes execution either by gang members or by a government or state; as in the case of Tookie Williams. Now analysis of the cost of capital punishment or the dealth penalty shows it to be more expensive, on average, than life imprisonment without parole. For example, Tookie’s case went over the average of 8 years of most dealth penalty cases and extended to 26 years of appeals, etc. Historically the death penalty as a judicial punishment has been seen to bear unequally and unjustly on the poor, on minorities and on oppressed groups within the population. This latter issue ought to be looked into more seriously because it gets to the larger issue of why people get into gangs in the first place. Moreover, an alarming number of those sentenced to death have eventually been released due to later evidence of their innocence. Finally, the death penalty is cruel, unjust and incompatible with the notions of human dignity and self respect, which is what we AMERICANS OUGHT TO BE PROMOTING whether black, latino, asian, white, etc. and whether or not a convicted person founded the SKin Heads of American or the Crips! Thus, the death penalty needs to be abolished and the alternative sentence ought to be life without parole.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:01 am
Nothing like “Hey kids, it’s Tookie Time!!! What are we going to learn today Tookie?!? Oh, killing is bad. Why is that Tookie? Because you will get your later in life if you get caught doing it. You are right Robin Bush. He is a GREAT role model:DEAD
December 13th, 2005 at 10:01 am
@ Carlos
AMEN, brother!!
December 13th, 2005 at 10:07 am
Kevin: There is no doubt Tookie was a bad guy, but since when does being a bad person become a crime punishable by death? If so, our population of about 290 million would dwindle to 50 million. What do you have to share about the post-1993 Tookie? Remember he was placed in THE HOLE isolated confinement from 1988 to 1993. This was the period he internalized his wrong-doings and redeemed his gang activities. He then found the media as a way to educate others born from his harsh experiences. Just a thought.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:09 am
8 years or 26 years. He would have the same amount of appeals. The argument of that is costs more is RIDICULOUS. If Tookie were alive and life without parole was what he got he would be alive for an average of 20 more years. 20 x 75,000 = 1.5 million dollars. That is 1.5 milion dollars more than what we have already paid to incarceate this criminal. Not to mention the costs of healthcare involved to keep this sorry sack of shizzle alive during geriatric care. Carlos. It looks like you did some research but those are just a couple of the facts.
The death penalty is a great tool as a bargaining chip as well. A prosecutor can offer life without parole instead of the death penalty if the accused will admit it. It is called plea bargaining and it happens on levels as low as speeding tickets. just one more reason why it saves money.
I can go all day so please keep them coming. This guy got what was coming to him and will continue to be an inspiration to me: as a dead man.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:10 am
How is he a role model? Rob, kill, jail, executed? who is stupid enough to look up to him as a role model? I mean he should be looked at as an example or deterrent maybe but not a role model.If he is your role model or your kids role model please stay away from me and my family. Seriously this guy thought he was famous, give me a break.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:16 am
John Jay: Were you named after the SUpreme Court Justice? That is interesting. But to your point:if the death penalty was such a great tool, why has 70% of the nation-states eliminated it as a bargaining chip or form of cruel punishment? And why are many US states now eliminating it? This sounds like a way not to use more creative ways to bargain, no? That is the point, we need to change the law enforcement system, and the many of the antiquated procedures in out common law system.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:41 am
Carlos….
“since when does being a bad person become a crime punishable by death?”
His crime is murdering 4 people, 3 of them were a whole family. Being a bad person isnt a crime, murder is.
December 13th, 2005 at 10:58 am
Exactly my point Tone! Thank you.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:13 am
i think its fucked up they excuted him their are people who killed more than he has and they are still walkin around. He was killed because he is the co founder of the crips and because he was a black man tring to change his life around.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:20 am
OK PEOPLE HE’S GONE… SO WHY ARE WE STILL USING SO MUCH ENERGY ON THIS? I AM OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY. I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON A COUPLE OF THINGS BEING SAID. FIRST OFF TO EUROPEON, STAY THE FUCK OFF THIS BLOG IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT IS BEING SAID OR DONE HERE IN THE USA! I’M SURE THAT AS “A SICK SOCIETY” WE REALLY DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY THAT WOULD INHANCE YOUR LIFE SO MOVE ON! YOU MUST LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD I’M SURE. THE OTHER THING THAT KEEPS COMING UP IS THE GOOD THIS MAN HAS DONE? WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THAT? THE WOMAN THAT HELPED WRITE HIS BOOKS HAD AN AGENDA… SHE IS ALSO OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY SHE WAS AT HIS SIDE LAST NIGHT. WHERE IS THE CHILDREN THAT HE HAS HELPED? WHERE WERE ALL HIS HOMEBOYS WHEN HE CARRIED OUT HIS SENTENCE? ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE WERE THERE TO A. SEE THEM SELVES ON TV. B. BECAUSE THEY OPPOSE THE DEATH PENALTY AND C. CAUSE THEY WERE MEDIA. TO SAY HE WAS “NOMINATED FOR A PEACE PRIZE” I WAS NOMINATED TWICE! ANYONE CAN BE ! SO TURN A PAGE PEOPLE AND START FOCUSING ON GETTING THE LAWS CHANGED.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:32 am
Feel like some bacon, anyone else.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:46 am
Don’t agree with the death penalty but the wonderfly beautiful state of California does, you laid back folks voted for this, so… Either way the world is way better off with this guilty loser banished to the ground. Twelve jurors overwhelmingly found this low life guilty. Too bad the victims families don’t get the press this, thing’ received. Blame the minddless press for that one. What annoys me more than this Tookie, Fookie, Nookie, whatever, is that asshole J. Foxx. Clearly the man’s head has spent much time up his own ass. So, he states he would like a carreer in the music field. Please no! We do not deserve another Ray Charles impersonation number of songs. Find your own goddamn style you embarassing shit. Oh ya, fuck you too K. West/East, seen it before too many times. That whole genre of music or sound is utter cheeze! California should execute these two assholes, for crimes against taste and humanity.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:54 am
Good paragraph, humour is always needed.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:56 am
Toni, saying he was executed for being a black man trying to turn his life arround is remarkable. He was executed because there’s a law or two on the books about what should happen to people that do murder. Those laws were written a couple hundred years ago and they had nothing to do with Mr. Williams. For saying and believing something like that you bring shame on yourself and you embaress your brothers. Self-Pity is weak.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:57 am
Carlos:
You mention something to the effect of opinons based on scriptures are a “dangerous road to take”. I believe you’ve made too quick a judgement in encircling all fundamentalism under the same heading. Fundamentalism itself isn’t the issue in the validity of the claims here, the issues are the issue– the substance of the beliefs being purported. Examine all of the scriptures used to support the death penality. Can you, setting aside the concept of a supreme being, find any one of them incorrect ? They are reasonable. They’re just. If someone’s words are reasonable and just I’ll listen, I don’t care which mouth they come from– do you?
The words of the islamic militants are not reasonable or just. They come from a heightned state of extreme zeal, only without knowledge. While many, many Christians are also guilty of this, the scripture itself says very clearly “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge.” in Proverbs 19:2. In the Christians case, that lack of knowledge is, specifically, ignorance of what their bible actually says.
My point is this, dismissing arguments based on scriptures because they are “all in the same boat” as the ideals of fundamentalist jihadists isn’t a reasonable position. Many of those scriptural based arguments are valid, if you read them.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:58 am
Remember, it isn’t just stupid illiterate black men that write things that are published, many other ethnicities
have also written published works from Jail.
December 13th, 2005 at 11:58 am
Brandon,
You’re on the money. There is no point of laws if they aren’t enforced. The fact is that he killed and he took away someones life. That is enough of a reason to carry out his punishment.
About these celebrities, to them I say ‘WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE’ not everything in life is fake like it is on screen. People actully die when they are shot in real life as oppose to on screen.
Bottom line is, if you don’t want to die, then DON’T KILL. Pretty simple.
WELL WRITTEN!!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 12:16 pm
very well wrote article, presented your beliefs very well. My heart goes out to the families that were hurt all those years ago, but what gives someone the right to play GOD and deal out life and death. I am not a fanatical religious man but I know that I am full of sin and wrongdoings just like everyone else so who am I to judge. If you believe in a higher power, whatever it is, then how can we justify murder, how can we do one wrong to right a previous wrong. I believe that their should be a severe punishment, maybe life in solitary confinement, what could be more miserable than that. I mean can you imagine sitting by yourself in a room for the rest of your life. Sometimes great things can come out of the worst situations. Although we can not surely know if Tookie was really remorseful or if it was all just an act. However, the strides that he took to admit his wrongdoings and try to right the situation that he helped to create is very comendable. In no way does that make up for the things that he has done or the families that he desroyed. This story makes me believe that there is hope for everyone to turn things around. Unfortunately, California didnt truly believe.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:17 pm
Your’ tax dollars! Do some research Christine. As clearly, evidenced in several articles/studies, it has been shown that the sentence of death actually has a higher cost than imprisoning someone for life, appeals etc. Oh ya,
Christine, he is implicated and responsible for all following crimes committed, he set forth a criminal methoddology that was followed, luckily in lesser numbers, to that of hitler and other similar villians. For those that oppose us making life and death choices on the basis of criminality, its our system, with our rules, if we don’t enact them who will, God, a number of us don’t actually beleive in the large heaven hoax, so. We have to have our own resposibilites and carry unpleasant decisions through sometimes. Look at how many people that asshole Bush is responsible for killing, talk about deserved execution, theres one.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:27 pm
i believe the death penalty is inhumane and cruel!! yes the victims did suffer but is this really justice for them?I dont believe so . like so many people who survive traumatic things like being shot in the face or are now vegetables due to being shot, they wouldn’t wish that to happen even on there worst enemy!Now can you imagine death. to be taken away from fresh air,freedom of speech,pushing you daughter or son on the swing,eating your favorite homemade meal do you really think this is what theses victims are crying out? seek revenge on tookie because he took me away from all that? no i don’t think so…this is america saying that in place of the victims!!i do not beleive this is the justice they would want,life is a gift and should be treated as such!a victim would not want anyone to experience that not even the person that killed them and that is pure forgiveness!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 12:27 pm
I didn’t take time to read everybodies post. but to the origional poster, and those 10-15 afterwards: AN EYE FOR AN EYE ONLY MADE THE WORLD BLIND. In the old testemant, God commanded the troops of the chosen people to destroy every man, woman, child, piece of livestock?! Then came the new testemant, where Jesus preached that if a man strikes you, turn the other cheek and offer it. he also preached forgivness. somebody stated that if it was “your mother…ect” yeah i’d be mad. but i can forgive him, knowing that God will deal punishment enough.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:29 pm
i dont think that tookie should have died, but he was wrong for killing four people. but i gotta give tookie props, he was a true rider
December 13th, 2005 at 12:32 pm
Turn it down Decibel. Oh yeah, that is the correct spelling by the way. Read up on that figure a bit about how it costs more to execute a prisoner than to keep him alive all his life. YOU do some research and post it here. I have. See post 187 and tell me how keeping a guy in prison all his life is really worth it. Fucking idiot
December 13th, 2005 at 12:34 pm
Shantel, if Tookie’s victims were able to wave goodbye to family members, lay down on a comfortable table, have iv’s inserted and comfortably die, then, I might feel for him or victims of the death penalty, however, this piece of shit , like so many of his kind are low life coward murdering bastards who deserve what they deserve. Having someone forced to the ground on their stomachs and then shot twice in the back, why feel remorseful for this piece of trash.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:51 pm
January 17, 2006. A man is set to die at the hands of the State of California. He is white. I bet none of you will plead for his clemency. Typical black people. Racist and Bigotted. Make a whole lot of noise and not make any sense. Dont give me shit, but if you do you know I will be able to take it since my people have been taking it for THOUSANDS of years. Pussies
December 13th, 2005 at 12:52 pm
Just a thought - would you tookie supporters now be in favor of granting clemency to the killers of James Byrd (dragged to death in Jasper, TX behind pickup)? What if the killers started writing books to discourage young bigots from hate? Wouldn’t they also be redeemed and deserve a 2nd chance - yeah.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
I am or was a friend of Tookie’s and all I gots to say is Fuck You niggers that are propin the homeboy and servin the injustice of the man. Arnold is a actor he don’t know what der fuck he is talkin bout. he come up in my hood and i will stick that european nigga. Everyone else on here usin big words fuck you to!! If Tookie was here he would show yall how it is done, lot a fuckers want to be like him, he was 1 tuf nigger.
December 13th, 2005 at 12:54 pm
John jay, B. J., whoever you really are, lovely that you have enough time to flip through your coles notes’ magazines for quotes etc. If your going to quote numbers, that, you obviously patched together, at least pay repect to the people, not men, man, him, poor little man only speaks in terms of one gender, how infintely dumb and cute. What country do all of these figures originate from? Worldwide, good ol Us of A. Incorrect and misleading if you truely believe 6 years is the correct amt. of time. Again if you take a closer look a the cost analysis of lengthy incarceration versus death you’ll be suprised. Six years is way too efficient for the United States to act. Oh yes, what was that intelligent term you passed on, fuck you.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:05 pm
Hey Jimmy,
Please make some sense of this for all of us then. Please tell me how it is more expensive to execute someone than keep them alive in prison. Is it just me or did they just save the state of California over 1 million dollars by putting a criminal to death. Please show me stats. And yes, the stats were quotes. It is called research.
6 years, 8 years whatever the years. Bottom line is it took 26 years to put him to death. Do you think that he wouldn’t be doing the same appeals if it was life in prison? If you say no than I will take that to mean that he was guilty and that this was most certainly an efficient execution.
You might want to rewrite your last comment Jimmy. I think I heard a collective head scratch from everyone on this board wondering what the hell : “at least pay repect to the people, not men, man, him, poor little man only speaks in terms of one gender, how infintely dumb and cute. What country do all of these figures originate from? Worldwide, good ol Us of A” is supposed to mean.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:11 pm
Jimmy, I am going to assume you were talking about post 188. By gender do you mean race? 188 came from the FBI publish crime stats. I encourage you to look at them.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:13 pm
Hearing about Tookie’s death was the greatest Christmas present anyone could give me. YES, TIME FOR ALL THE NIGGERS ON DEATH ROW TO DIE!
December 13th, 2005 at 1:17 pm
Jewish Harry— lol, right on
Friend Of Tookie — this is JUSTICE SERVED, not the man’s injustice. He killed some people, was sentanced to die and the dude got an extra 20 years to live past that. He was a tuf dude, yeah. Tuf as they come. But what do you know about it? You don’t care about justice. He was a bad dude so he shouldnt have to be executed because you hate to see bad black dudes face any extra opposition in life? The black man has it easy. Look at the plight of the mexican man. At least africans get some respect. Mexicans have it a thousand times worse in america then black men and they dont pity themselves. Is there a mexican secretary of state? Hell no.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:18 pm
I am or was a friend of Tookie’s and all I gots to say is Fuck You niggers that are propin the homeboy and servin the injustice of the man. Arnold is a actor he don’t know what der fuck he is talkin bout. he come up in my hood and i will stick that european nigga. Everyone else on here usin big words fuck you to!! If Tookie was here he would show yall how it is done, lot a fuckers want to be like him, he was 1 tuf nigger. i say again fuck u niggas
December 13th, 2005 at 1:25 pm
I don’t believe we have the right to put other people to death, who are we to decide who gets to live and who gets to die? Why do some people get death penalty and why do some get life in prison? People who have done worse than Williams, have recieved life in prison.
And I am not against the death penalty for the reason that its to harsh - but isnt it a way out also? I wouldnt want to live every day of my life on death row, I would rather have a way out.
The Governor said in his decline for clemency that without an apology there is no redemption, but if Williams believed he was innocent, why would he apologize for something he said he didn’t do.
I dont know, I just have a bad feeling about what just happend a couple of hours ago.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:36 pm
Hey Tookie’s “friend”
He is a DEAD NIGGER now biatch! I bet you are as tough as bubblegum you pansy. Bring it with your bad self. I am waiting fucker!!
December 13th, 2005 at 1:41 pm
I can’t believe this worthless thug became a celebrity. He only spoke out against gang violence because the law took away his right to participate in it. No amount of “sorry” will repay society for all the death this man caused, both personally and by creating the crips.
Good riddance to a cold-hearted coward.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:03 pm
Well, last night should have happen a long time ago. You want ZERO inmates on death row, speed up their execution…
December 13th, 2005 at 2:05 pm
All I can say is its about time.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:06 pm
Wow. Where do I start? OK, this could get long, but stick with
me here.
All of you obviously feel very passionately about
your points of view. Now, I’ll give you mine:
We’re all dying, from birth, no surprise there. Although it is
surprising how many talk like that’s not the case (like we’d live
forever, except for disease, accidents and crime). Of course,
we’d love the cause of that death to be old age, but that’s not
always in the cards. When someone kills you, perhaps they’re
taking you off this earth earlier that you were scheduled for, or
maybe not. But the fact remains that we ALL agree that no one has
the right to shorten the life of another, or do we? An 18 y/o
soldier in Iraq shoots and insurgent but one of his M16A2 rounds
misses and hits a little girl, killing her instantly. Should he
die, especially if this war was founded on unreliable information,
or does he deserve to go home and hug his children, living out the
rest of his natural life in peace because his intent was to kill a
‘bad’ man? No doubt he’ll suffer from some degree of guilt, but
that would be cold comfort to the parents of the dead girl. I’m
certain they’d want the head of the soldier on a spit.
See, when you start down the road of “and eye for and eye”, it’s a
dangerous and messy SECULAR journey. That’s right, to you who are
quoting scripture, read the whole scripture, not just the
part that appeases your bloodlust for justice. For instance, do
you realize that right before the often misquoted “eye for and eye”
passage, the book of Leviticus also says, “Whoever
blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death. All
the congregation shall stone him.”? Do you feel as passionately
about this important law as well? Should adulterers be stoned?
Where do you draw the line?
And that’s the problem with these hard-n-fast rules for society.
As a person who grew up in Compton, I know that the implementation
of the law and the police evidence brought to trial is often
suspect, and riddled with human error. A less than optimal system
for sentencing felons to life in prison, really bad when you
start sending folks to the executioner. You can’t give $750,000
to a dead man if you find out your were wrong years later.
Look, if someone breaks in my house, even the law of the land says
that I can resist a burgular. But, in Matthew 5:38-40, Christ
says, “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a
tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who
is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him
the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your
tunic, let him have your cloak as well.” Whoa! Personally, I’d
rather kick someones ass who is trying to steal from me and mine,
but that doesn’t work in a real Christian paradigm.
In a justice system subject to human error you know that you’re going
to make mistakes. So, you have to choose: Do we lean towards punishing
some innocent people, or would we rather err on the side of letting some
guilty people go free. The founders of our system wisely chose the former
which is especially handy when the stakes are killing the accused. I know
that pissed many of you off to see a person who killed your loved one
get off, but turn it around. What if you were wrongly accused?
I have to believe that everything happens for a reason, even
Tookie’s life and death. In this Christmas season, I think that
it’s probably a sign that we should have a deep look inside our
mortal minds and possibly immortal souls, realign our beliefs with
what is true and right and try to make this a better world.
Perhaps we should start by giving our cloak to those who want to
sue us.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:19 pm
What I meant asshole was that throughout all of your ramblings, you only spoke in terms of masculine pronouns, clearly showing how juvenille and simplistic your brain and writing skills actually are. Cheers John Jay Jerkoff!
Typical American fuckwad.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:44 pm
You are right Jimmy!! I should have been saying IT the whole time!! How else should I have described a murderer. I am sorry for the improper usage of the word.
You my friend are an idiot, and frankly I am surprised that you know how to use a computer let alone afford one. You probably stole it out of the back of somebody’s car.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
I truely beleive that if we aborted all american births for the next fifty years, oh what a wonderful world it would be. Think about the mess you yanks have created internally and externally. How wonderful it would be.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:51 pm
Damn it Craig, It is not about race.
2 out of 12 people executed in the State of California since 1977 have NOT BEEN BLACK. Get it through your THICK MONKEY SKULLS!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 2:53 pm
Jimmy agrees Kid. I think we should first get rid of Jerky Jay, he seems so disgruntled. Does anyone out there have some loving words for Jay, he needs some lovin. He’s such a racist dolt, read some of his past emails-YIKES, I think I read earlier that the fellow has children-I hope the poor bastards are actually de-clawed gerbals.
December 13th, 2005 at 2:55 pm
who u callin a monkey nigga? u all put down the black man long enough–dis hole tookie thing IS about race. bitches
December 13th, 2005 at 3:01 pm
Friend of tookie-hopefully at some point you will get the firing sqaud after you. When your drafting a response, make sure your dirty nigger cock isn’t in your mouth, fucking garbage man.
December 13th, 2005 at 3:04 pm
der proof was that he was INNOCENT!!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
ALL YOU WHITE PEOPLE OUT TER LOVE THE FACT THAT MY HOMIE POOKIE WHO WAS AN INNOCENT MAN WAS PUT DOWN!!!! YET U WINE LIKE BITCHES WHEN WE HOLD YOU UP– LEAST HE TOOK IT LIKE A MAN… NUFFER SAID!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 3:17 pm
Shooting an innocnet in the back is dealing it out like a man-you fuckin, like all of them-no good nigger, fiend of tookit-like listening to all that chessy nigger music-you have to stop listening to that bobby brown and mc hammer stuff
December 13th, 2005 at 3:18 pm
Actually, I just also want to say that us black men should stick together. I for one don’t care if a couple of chinese people got shot and I certainly don’t care if some white kid did either. Hopefully they will learn to stay out of our way. Kid is totally right. The white race is bringing us all down. We shouldn’t stand up for any of this shit anymore! John Jay and his bigotted mind will be the first to go.
Tookie RIP my brother, rest in peace
December 13th, 2005 at 3:21 pm
Hope you enjoy your life, whats left of it. I don’t know how old you are but odds are you will be dead by 25 or some dude named Bubba’s bitch in Prison. How do you like that? Tookie was somebody’s bitch!!!
December 13th, 2005 at 3:21 pm
fuck all ya who said he should die im blood
December 13th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
Tookie was INNOCENT
December 13th, 2005 at 3:34 pm
Got er dun didn’t we Majick. You dumb animal. Bet you and Tookie were real close. Were you his bitch in prison. Bet yer blood from all that blood that bled out yer ass all over the stupid nigger. Go get yerself some fried chicken and shut the fuck up Majick
December 13th, 2005 at 3:38 pm
On the negative side of Stanley “Tookie” Williams’ receiving his well-earned death sentence is that it’s only one down with so many more to come as well they should and must.
The positive side of Williams’ being executed is that although it’s only one more down with so many more to go, we can all be truly thankful to GOD that at least it’s one more down.
Yo, “Tookie”, tell all the bluhs wha’ it wuz, wha’ it diz, and wha’ it gonna beez whenz diz time to collectz da wages due! Say huh?
December 13th, 2005 at 3:39 pm
Kid aint black. Kid is white. Kid is bored with all of you. Kid is now leaving the building.
December 13th, 2005 at 3:41 pm
P.S. Abort all American births!
December 13th, 2005 at 3:55 pm
Damn it looks like this discussion has degenerated some…and like always some “ni**a” is involved. Tookie was a murderer and a thug. I was born and raised in East Oakland and I still live in the Bay to this day. I am also raising four young boys and I know first hand what people like him can do to a community. I don’t care about him writing books etc…Folks in jail always have some kind of angle going so they can show the review boards how nice and sweet they are. He had tremendous time on his hands and I think his book writing was just another hustle to gain a reduced sentance or clemency It seems that black youths today embrace any gangsta or fool who flashes wealth or power around regardless of any moral stand that person may have. Look at Tookies “celebrity” support. Snoop? A “crip” who made millions rapping about ganstas and hoes! Jesse “crooked” Jackson? That self serving man never spoke for me. Its hard raising a family of young black men. There just is no positive influence from are community. The void is filled by negative and we are supposed to embrace these fools? If we as black people speak out against Tookie or others there are 10 ni**as in line waiting to call us sell out. 1 fundamental rule: If you do the crime then you do the time. He did the crime and now he has to pay the price. Simple as that. Poor Tookie! Goes on a murdering spree, writes some cute books years later and all is forgiven? F**k him. The leading cause of death among Black youth is homocide. And 80 to 90 percent of the time it is at the hands of another black person. I have four sons and I dont like those odds at all. Time to stop putting these ni**as on pedastals. Time to start holding ourselves accountable here.
Remember: Tookie founded the Crips and got sent to Death Row for four murders. Thats just the stuff we know about! I think its safe to say there are plenty of others who suffered or even died just because this fool was around. I don’t hear him apologizing for any of that…
December 13th, 2005 at 4:00 pm
ABORT ALL AMERICAN BIRTHS
December 13th, 2005 at 4:19 pm
Just out of curiousity, where do you come from KID?
December 13th, 2005 at 4:32 pm
I have not read all the comments, so I’m not quite sure if anyone else has pointed this out. I just think it’s funny how black people are the most racists people in the U.S. They will support a guilty black man at the drop of a hat. They preach about being descriminated against yet that is the nature of who they are. Not all, but the ones who came out to support this “nigger” williams. Yes he is a nigger. His actions make him a nigger not his color. Just like snoop, and jamie fox. these stupid niggers are only supporting the nigger, williams because he is black. they could care less about the people he murdered.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
For those that think he’s innocent, he practically confessed his violence in an interview (excerpt from article below)
“In a candid, and revealing moment, Stanley “Tookie” Williams told a visitor at San Quentin prison that he helped found the notorious Crips street gang because he wanted to smash everyone, make a rep, get respect and dignity, and that he wanted his name to be known everywhere…”
440 - Mr. JD. I’m with you - the only way to pave a better society for our children is if we hold the guilty accountable. Don’t let them fade behind the “thin blue/black/white line” - pick them out! These rotten apples fuel the seeds of hate and discord between RACES - don’t buy into it. I have friends of many Races and I’m not about to let the destructive acts of a few ruin my outlook on people. I am PURPLE.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:58 pm
CONTINUE TO PRAY FOR THE GRIEVING FAMILY OF TOOKIE WILLIAMS HE DIDN’T DESERVE THE DEATH PENALTY HE SPENT MANY MANY YEARS BEHIND THE GRAY WALLS AND BARS
December 13th, 2005 at 5:04 pm
Yo Anonymous - have you looked at the photos of his 4 victims? I suppose you don’t care anyway. And yes, as a parent I do have a certain amount of compassion for his parents. Do you have any for the family of the victims? Don’t answer - I don’t care to hear from hate-mongers like you. Any man who would gun down innocent, defenseless women is the lowest form of COWARD - anyone can pull a trigger.
December 13th, 2005 at 5:50 pm
Tookie Williams innocent, after 25 years of litigation, movies, the support of Hollywood and Europe because there was still no evidence to overturn the verdict. I for one am not losing any sleep over Tookie because the fact is Stanley Tookie Willaims is a self proclaimed co-founder of the Crips. It is believed Hilter never personally never murdered anyone but having been a founder and leader of the Nazi Party he would have been assured a spot on the end of a rope. Lets say Hitler didn’t commit suicide, but live for 25 years. After awhile when by Adolf “Schnitzel” Hitler, ghost authors friendly books about jews and your neighborhood. He is a changed and new man. Though he still thought he was innocent and rairoaded by that overexaggerated Holocaust term he was REDEEMED. Would we care. This show I feel about “TOOKIE”. In California alone there is an estimated 10,000 deaths statewide from gang warfare from 1981 to 2001, seventy five percent of these in Los Angeles. Gang life has been a holocaust for young black males. I live in Baltimore a city where the drug and gangsta life has filled our courthouse and prisons with young black men. They say his ashes will be spread in South Africa. Ha, I say Express mail them to South L A. It is believed that the Crips have “been responsible for literally thousands of murders in Los Angeles alone.” So let the vicitms of gangs do with Tookie as they please. As for Mr williams close friend Barbara Becnel saying she anticipates the the funeral ceremony will be on the scale of the local memorials for Rosa Parks. All I can say is GOD HELP US ALL
December 13th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
Carlos:
That was quite a mouthful. Most of it, however, was virtually meaningless and actually irrelevant. I do expect forgiveness if I misinterpreted your post since it didn’t make any sense to begin with…
“This is a dangerous road to take; that is, unless you are a religious fundamentalist that Islamic fundamentalists are all terrorists.”
(The ideas you’ve introduced regarding Iraq are also irrelevant. This sovereign state engaged US forces over 350 times in the year preceding the war. That’s almost once a day. You swallowed the reasons for the war that the media constructed and then tasted the bitterness.)
The question of correctness is the point. Interpretation is not what was offered as the foundation of the arguments. The scriptures themselves were. You attacked those arguments because of the fact that they were based on scriptures and compared the validity of their arguments to the validity of the arguments used by jihadists. The jihadists are using interpretation of scriptures to justify what is clearly illegal and ostensibly evil. The bloggers here are using the actual scriptures themselves to support what is mandated by the law.
There are no issues of “interpretation and action based on such interpretation” on this blog. We’re discussing Tookie Williams. No one here is using the interpretation of scriptures to justify evil actions. Some people quoted reasonable scripture’s to support opinions. Opinions that you dismissed and held in contempt merely because of this support.
Your other “point” regarding a person’s credibility is, actually, point-less. Facts are subject to credibility, reasonable statements are independent of credibility because they are……reasonable.
December 13th, 2005 at 6:20 pm
You can’t put a price on life. That it one thing you cannot buy. Time. It’s the most precious thing we have in our possession. I think it is common sense that if you take what cannot be replaced from someone, his or her life, there is no redemption. None. It wouldn’t be fair to the people who were killed. It’s easy to be faced with death like Tookie and suddenly change one’s tune. But there has got to be a point of no return. When Tookie decided to kill those people, he chose to go past the point of no return, and there are certain things in life you can’t take back. NEVER. No matter what you do.
I’m not sure why we are debating this. I understand those who oppose the death penalty. I’m not sure where I stand on that. But one thing is for sure. The world would have been a better place with Tookie. Those people would have still been alive. Tookie has no rights. Deserves none. He’s been executed. May he NOT rest in piece and be tortured by the souls of the people he killed. Let him burn in hell.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:02 pm
I’ll say it plain to any black-skinned man, woman, teen, or child who belongs to a gang or who, by chance, oes not belong to a gang that it will be my full intent to vigorously explain to you in an instant how much I do indeed support the death penalty!
Break into my home while my family and I sleep and no matter the rationale for your doing so I will vigorously and without intention do my very best to kill you, no questions asked! You see, I believe in the death penalty!
Attempt to rob me and I will do my damnedest to aim at you well enough that I am successful in killing you. You see, I do believe in the death penalty!
Attempt to rape (or participate in, contribute to, or assist in the attempt) my wife or one of my daughters or any victim and if I am there to witness your attempting to do so I will empty the pistol I am carrying by firing as many bullets in you as is necessary to assure me that you have died and that I am responsible for having killed you. You see, I believe in the death penalty!
Attempt to jack my car and if I am quick enough to do so I will use the pistol I carry to kill you without hesitation. You see, I believe in the death penalty!
Attempt to cause me serious bodily harm (with or without the intent to actually murder me) with any or no weapon and given any opportunity to do so I will be whatever means possible kill you. You see, I believe in the death penalty!
“Tookie” also believed in the death penalty - he proved it by murdering four human beings without their provoking him or attempting to do harm to him or his property. The citizens of California also collectively believed in the death penalty - they proved it by removing one of the poorest excuses for human existence by executing “Tookie”.
Now, if you and/or any other individual - regardless of your skin color, ethnic background, religion (or lack of same), philosophies, standing, membership in any organization, or any other consideration - understands that I believe in the death penalty but scoff at that understanding to the point where it would not deter you from acting in any way I have stated as the basis for my applying the death penalty in order to kill you then act at your own peril.
“Tookie” acted at his own peril and unfortunately it wasn’t against me at a time I could have personally introduced him to my strong and unwavering support for the death penalty. Therefore, he simply had to wait 26 years for others to do to him what I would have happily and unhestiatingly done to him and any other piece of ilk like him in an instant.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:10 pm
google wichita massacre if you want to get pissed.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:16 pm
THATS BULLSHIT,THEY SHOULDNT HAVE KILLED HIM,HE HELP KEEP KIDS OUT OF GANGS,OK,HE MIGHT OF KILLED A FEW PEOPLE BUT ITS KING TOOKIE,KING TOOKIE
December 13th, 2005 at 7:38 pm
The thing that I most regret about “Tookie’s” execution is the fact that he could only be executed once. Too bad and really sad medical science hasn’t yet advanced to the point where he could be brought back to life after being executed so he could be put through three more executions and then left dead so as to kill him four times instead of just one. Then the score could have been settled for each of his four victims.
The thing I delight most in with respect to “Tookie’s” execution is the fact that he was black. Not because it meant a black man was executed but because it meant that just because he was a black man such a fact didn’t keep him from being executed amongst our having to tolerate all the libs, left-wing democrats, and bleeding-heart idiots who wallow in so-called political correctness.
December 13th, 2005 at 7:47 pm
i dont think ya should have killed my dad forget yall homie
December 13th, 2005 at 7:55 pm
i think yall killed him cause he was black cause if a white man started the crips then yall would hae let him go rest in pease dad love ya baby girl
December 13th, 2005 at 8:26 pm
Enough talking about this DEAD NIGGER OKAY. HE AIN’T WORTH ARUGING OVER ANYMORE HE IS GONE FROM THE FACE OF THIS EARTH AND THAT’S IT. I CAN’T WAIT TILL I GET A CHANCE TO GO DIG UP HIS GRAVE AND BURN THE BONES INTO ASHES AND EAT IT FOR DINNER.
December 13th, 2005 at 9:36 pm
yo to u all before we can judge someone we should learned about him first he is a role model to lots of people like me the founder of crips. we all look up at him and think that he could of cange if people just would of let him………….
December 13th, 2005 at 11:50 pm
His biggest lesson for other’s to learn…was the last one. You take life and you pay with yours.
live by the sword, die by the sword.
Maybe…just maybe, someone will think before they take a life.
Your final words were outstanding. Just think how many people he really could have helped.
He would have ended up a true hero.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:39 am
Here I sit with one minute to live,
I would kill that guard if only i had a shive.
But alas I sit here with only my words,
to spew them out loosely, like I do my turds.
I sit here in this prison,
with the tears bluring my vision.
Not in the least for my victims of course,
There is no way I would show any remorse.
My life has been such a waste,
For all that blood I could of had a taste.
If only I had not been caught,
Think of all the drugs I could have bought.
I think it is all so unfair,
Look at my nappy hair.
I would get a nice weave,
If only I could get a reprieve.
Doesn’t anybody remember that I am an O.G.
Can someone please remind all the crips who know nothing about me?
I have remained loyal to the gang,
Even though in here I liked to get the bang.
In my cell I pretended that I wrote some books,
Unfortunatly all the smart people saw it was only for looks.
I never even know how to read, let alone write,
To my “co-author” I would like to say thank you for making it look like I might.
How many times I have wished I had another chance to live,
Unlike I had for my victims to give.
I represented to be so tough,
But truth be told I had nothing but a muff.
My name is Stanley and I am a bitch,
for me there is no switch.
Now there is no more reason for me to lie,
In one more minute I am going to die.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:47 am
I guess that rule doesn’t apply when we invade a foreign country?
December 14th, 2005 at 1:42 am
There are many methods that could have been used to support Tookies innocence or guilt. Polygraph tests, hypnosis etc. Tookie could have used these options to show his innocence. He did not, cos I believe the results would have shown his guilt. The only people who have any right to decide his fate are the close friends and family of the victims. I do not think that the Tookie supporters understand the pain caused to victims and their families by the violence perpetrated by criminals like Tookie. It is easy to say ‘I have found GOD’ after being caught and convicted. That’s great for Tookie if it is at all true. GOD will forgive him upstairs. Fortunately for us law abiding citizens, man’s laws must prevail on land.
December 14th, 2005 at 9:08 am
Stop the madness please, this article is good an speaks the truth. Tookie williams was an inventor of evil;please not use the terms Black leaders, there are none nor do we as a people need one. I don’t live in a urban area or a containment area where many have decided to dwell based upon their own choices, but that can’t be true because the white man put them in that predicament? And they can’t get out? How did this race become so liberal? Over 80% of the Black race confess Jesus Christ, but we are embedded with the political process that supported and designed over the years the dismantling of the Black family and support everything anti-Jesus? Either we will overcome the Willie Lynch syndrome or forever proving its accuracy.
December 14th, 2005 at 10:48 am
I FEEL THAT TOOKIE WILLIAMS SHOULD STILL BE HERE TODAY NOT ONLY BECAAUSE
HE IS BLACK BUT BECAUSE DID THEY KILL THAT WHITE BITCH CHARLES
MANSIN HELL NOAH!!! ARNOLD IS A STUPID ASS BITCH HE JUST MAD AS FUCK BECAUSE ALL
OF HIS PROPOSITIONS WERE DENIED FUCK HIM AND THE GOV
December 14th, 2005 at 10:53 am
AH CUZ THAT NIGGA TOOKIE WILLIAMS SHOULD STILL BE HERE CAUSE I FUCCIN
SAID SO CUZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FUCK WHAT THE REST GOT TO SAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!20K
December 14th, 2005 at 11:05 am
If your name has a la, sha, qua, toya, shay, bookie, jerome or any mix of the statistically stupid mokey names please don’t post, don’t attemp to read, and go play in traffic. We could use fewer Democrats.
December 14th, 2005 at 12:47 pm
12/14 HEY yAL, ole Tookie done give us the slip. See my earlier
posts. Shit, man he got it made now. Barney
December 14th, 2005 at 12:55 pm
Yo, “Tookie”, I, for one, really miss you. Wish you were still here so I could hold another early morning party celebrating the moment when the drugs fried your corrupted insides and you died like a stuck pig. Damn, that was real fun toasting to your execution and the reporting of your taking one last shallow breath and making a pitiful exit as the worthless human garbage that you were.
Wow, wish you could come back so the State could do you in at least one more time!
December 14th, 2005 at 1:13 pm
tookie should live. he changed my life as a kid from gang banging. im 14 and still living thanks to that speacial person and now you take him away. i will remain to do my part as living an smart life and help change people llike me.
December 14th, 2005 at 1:58 pm
Barney, where can I get these articles you keep talking about?
I would like to see them for myself.
December 14th, 2005 at 2:01 pm
jay:
Are you a bit behind the facts, boy? Well yeah, you are. You see, “Tookie” be dead, real dead. So, too late for you to express your opinion that he “should live.” Not gonna happen, we, as a society, done put that piece of trash down and we put him down real good and permanent so he can’t get back up.
No, about your nonsense of “Tookie” changing your life - he didn’t, of course, you may have changed it but he didn’t - but he did change the lives of those he murdered and those who cared deeply about the people he murdered. And that, young man, is why “Tookie” be real DEAD right now. ’cause we done executed his worthless ass, understand now?
December 14th, 2005 at 2:49 pm
Half you motherf__’s can’t even spell. First learn how to spell and punctuation!!!!!!!!!
December 14th, 2005 at 4:52 pm
Educated you have a runon sentence and this sentence “First learn how to spell and punctuation!!!!!!!!!” is all fucked up
December 14th, 2005 at 4:59 pm
All of this is crazy..thumbs up to Arnold! The only reason people are throwing a fit over tookie is because he was black and how dare anyone do anything to a black person is BS.If that would have been a white man it would have been no big deal, but you have all those black people(jamie foxx,jessee etc) throwing a fit.The way I see it he got off easy compared to the people he killed. In my eyes he is responsible for all the murders that gang was involved in. I clapped the moment he was declared dead! hip hip horray!
Yay Arnold!
December 14th, 2005 at 5:01 pm
CHECK OUT THE LINK BELOW AND SEE THE “TOOKIE WILLIAMS” VICTIMS. THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY.
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:05 pm
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html <<<<< TOOKIE WILLIAMS VICTIMS HERE. THE ONE WE KNOW ABOUT
December 14th, 2005 at 5:06 pm
TOOKIE VICTIMS HERE, THE ONES WE KNOW ABOUT>>>>
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:09 pm
For some great commentary on why ALL pieces of human excrement should be eliminated like this pig check out http://www.jtf.org ’cause in your hearts you know we are right, and in your guts you know their nuts, shalom!!
December 14th, 2005 at 5:09 pm
Seem like no body care about the victims. I guest they are not important.
The Mass Media didnt even bother to show there faces. Thanks Gussie for
giving us the link so we can see the people this animal killed.
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:41 pm
12/14 Mr. Saturn: there are no articles on Tookie’s trip to Aruba.
This is from a reliable source in Canada, a news network that I
belong to all the way to European sources close to INTERPOL. All
messages are encrypted by sender and receiver.1. the Tookie scam
execution has been pulled before 2. The Terminator is in trouble
in Calif. his propositions have not been passed, he has lost the
Latino and Black voter, and this Tookie Crip, Bloods, Latin Kings,
deal was icing on the cake for him. They and the Gangsta Disciples
had all threatened Arnie that they’ve pull a Watts on him if he
did kill Tookie so a deal was cut with the Justice Dept. to pull
the execution scam again. 3. Military helicopters and jets flew
Tookie, not in too good a shape after being paralyzed briefly to
Panama, then on to Aruba. He is to be moved to Curacao within the
month, as Aruba is having problems over the missing teen case.
Keep you all posted. Barney
December 14th, 2005 at 5:41 pm
TOOKIE VICTIMS
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:42 pm
TOOKIE VICTIMS
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:42 pm
TOOKIE VICTIMS
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:43 pm
TOOKIE VICTIMS HERE>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/tookiewilliamsvictims.html
December 14th, 2005 at 5:56 pm
12/14 Hey, Justice, your poem to ole Tookie was fantastic. Ya
have found your calling for sure, you need to perfect it and go
into the literary field for sure. Man, it was very very good and
I am a fair judge of talent. I read where Dookie shanked a few
dudes in Quentin while he was there, kicked in quite a few asses
black and white, and burned some dudes eyes with stale piss. Oh,
well, they got no worries nor does he now, he’s living large in
Aruba, bound for Curacao in a few weeks cause like usual, he dont
take orders from no mf and would not bleach his skin or regrow his
thinning afro. He said shave it, and fuck the bleach job, thats
MJ’s thing, I’m growing a big beard, stach, and going for ear
candy hanging down with a big gold chain round my 20 inch neck,
with a medallion saying,” fuckya” Dont tell anyone, as this is
top secret stuff, from my Canadian Interpol sources. See my other
earlier posts on this. Barney
December 14th, 2005 at 6:43 pm
YOU BRING SHAME ON U.S.A.(LL)
December 14th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
Mr. Williams got exactly what he deserved, although his method of execution should have been the same as he meted out to his victims. Even if one believes in the studies which show that the death penalty does not deter criminals, it certainly deters “Tookie”. There is absolutely no chance that this former hate-filled, racist, piece of human debris will ever kill another innocent person again. Such a guarantee would not be possible if any other than the the death penalty were imposed. It should have been carried out over 25 years ago.
December 14th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
to pastor Shirley Williams-in fact, the bible DOES make distinctions regarding various sins in BOTH testaments and the punishments which should be meted out. Thou shalt not “KILL” actually translates kill as “murder” rather than all killing as bad. The same God who gave the ten commandments also established the death penalty for various crimes, NOT JUST MURDER!!!!!! In the new testament, when presented with the whore and put to the test regarding wether he thought she should be stoned, Jesus replied to them NOT that she shouldn’t be executed, but that whoever was without sin cast the first stone. Had someone in the crowd tossed one, Jesus probably would have left them to it, knowing the executioners would have been forced to judge themselves. That Mr. Williams had supposedly “redeemed” himself flies in the face of his claims of innocence. Tookie Williams didn’t found one of the most bloodthirsty organizations in this nation’s history by having campfire sing-a-longs with the neighborhood youths. If I were to go way out on a limb to agree that he didn’t kill those four people, are we to believe he never killed anyone? I think he only got caught once. He created mayhem and destruction that will be a cancer in our society for generations. How many death row inmates will ghostwrite children’s books and speak at functions to get their sentences overturned or forgiven? And, golly, you can nominate a ham sandwich six times for a Nobel Peace prize. Enough. If we want to impact our youth to stay away from gangs, stop buying the gangsta wannabee clothes and accessories for them, pull their pants up and give them a firm loving kick in the butt from time to time and let them know the death penalty is real and it is a PUNISHMENT first. If it deters, more the better. I can’t take the hypocrisy of people who let their kids dress, talk, walk and act like gang members, listen to filthy violent gangsta rap, say hello by making gang signs and then be morally outraged when a deadly criminal is put to death for what he has done to WE, THE PEOPLE. Wake up, y’all.
December 14th, 2005 at 8:50 pm
As far as I’m concerned, he founded a gang.
If he admitted that, than he shold Die.
There is way to much tolerance in this country,
People need to wise up and quit being so dam
emotionally spoiled. ANYONE who promotes violent
behavior should be severly punish and ANYONE who kills
in cold blood should be killed.. What pisses me of is that it
took so long to off the guy…
December 14th, 2005 at 10:13 pm
All you ignorants out there, get your facts right !! Youre mad at Tookie for founding the infamous Crips gang wrong? Lesson for you. He was the co-founder. The original founder was Raymond Lee Washington to prevent REAL gangs from disrupting their neighborhood with their crimes. Tookie followed and eventually they joined forces. This was all to protect and stop REAL gangs and their crimes. The uprising of the violent times for Crips didn’t happen until Tookie was already in jail-which was the 90s.
And how about you all who says he deserves to burn, rot, etc in hell?? What does that show people about you? He is innocent. His witnesses were CRIMINALS themselves. How are their testimonies valid? If that’s not enough, in the mid-90’s witnesses came to his lawyers and admitted they were bribed and threatened to testify against TOOKIE. Then 72 hours before his death, the rest admitted the same. Why did it take them so long? Maybe their conscience got the best of them-that a man is really going ot be executed of something he didn’t do. Maybe they were afraid. Maybe they thought it was the right time to tell the world. His accomplice was even given the option of clemency to point his finger at him. Our justice system does’t know what it’s doing.
Tookie was a great contribution to our community. He helped my friends turn their lives around from gangs they grew up to know-it wasn’t their fault they were brought up in such a bad neighborhood. At one point he held the Bloods and Crips in Harmony. He was a positive force in our negative growing community. You anti-Tookies can critisize all you want at my opinions (and facts). You respect no one’s but yourselves. We lost a true hero. But maybe God needed him more in heaven than we did here on earth.
December 15th, 2005 at 3:28 am
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
MK Gandhi
December 15th, 2005 at 3:54 am
Mr Forby,
Since you are so keen to enlist the help of the Bible in your support of state sponsored murder, can I point you in the direction of Matthew 5:38-48 (Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.) or Romans 12:19-21 (Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, vengeance is mine; I will repay, sayeth the Lord.)?
The death penalty is barbarism on a medieval scale, practised in such bastions of human rights as Saudi Arabia, China, North Korea and Iran.
Your bosom must just swell with pride to be in such exalted company.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Finally, might I just add that I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the discussion here, where strongly held views have been put by both sides of the death penalty debate.
It is good to see frank and open discussion allowed on a conservative website when so many do not permit it.
Thank you.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:28 am
These comments on this page are interesting. The truth of the matter is that we really don’t know the truth. The evidence presented in the trials are skeechy so maybe Mr. Williams did not commit the crimes in question. However he was guilty of other crimes and there for he should be in jail for those. Now to blame him for the crimes of all the crips is ridiculous. Thats like blaming Colonel Sanders for all the people who get high blood pressure from eating at KFC. There are worst murders like the KKK, neo nazi, violent militants groups, the Republican Party who have committed more murder than the Crips. He was condemned more for the few crimes seen and the even more unseen that wore done but what he founded when he was a young man many years ago. The man was a changed person because he was using the same talent to found the Crips to save people from the same type of violence.
As far as the death penalty I”m not opposed to it in certain cases. Now if you look at the facts and the statics from Crimemagazine.com The murder rates in states without the death penalty is actually lower than states with it. Texas and Ohklahoma which have the highest murder rate also have the highest death penalty rates as well. It’s not proportionate to the races as well. No look at the justice in California. This same legal system had Rodney King, Michael Jackson, OJ, Tookie Williams, and Charles Manson. Charles Manson is also still alive and eligible for parole.
They got Tookie b.c he was a powerful black man and could influence people. He was the founder of a prodiminatly minority rebelous group. Who else would you target if you were in authority. Since 1977, 119 People have been released from death row b.c it was found that they were not guilty of the crimes that they committed. Also since 1903 evidence has found that 23 people who have been executed later to find that evidence pointed that they did not commit the crimes they were accussed of. The guy who was an eye witness and aparently was granted ammunity for testifing against Mr. Williams has since be incarcerated in Canada for guess what. You go it he committed an armed robbery that let to a murder.
To the victims I feel they do deserve closure. Sometimes you just want it to be someone and since he is a bad person they want to believe it was him that did it. Since he reputation is what it is it is difficult for him to get a fair trial and dispute that. In the last days there were talk of people who came forward and had new evidence in the trial. This being America a person in that case should have all possible resources exhausted to ensure that the right person is exocuted.
In closing what did killing this man accomplish. In my opinion nothing at all. It just another black man dead. They want to kill the ones who are trying to do positive thing in the present and the future no matter what they did in that past. Children, activist, celebs and 50000+ had an unprecedent show of support for someone who was trying to be a positive influence. They were just asking for clemency or a stay of exocution. No one asked for him to go free. And statically speaking it is more expensive for a death row sentence than life in prison( crimemagazine.com)
December 15th, 2005 at 6:11 am
I stumbled onto this site while looking up information on Stanley “Tookie” Williams. While reading this has been interesting, and both sides bring up strong points (which is probably why the man is dead now), I’m wondering where people are getting the transcript from? I’ve been looking for it and cannot find the actual court transcripts. If anyone has any info. on that, please pass it on.
December 15th, 2005 at 7:42 am
yo yo yo this is your main man FUNK MASTER FLEX
i need everybodys cooperation i’m lookin’ for a couple of niggaz to shine my cars,
word
December 15th, 2005 at 8:35 am
Brandon,when the liberals start nit-picking such things as your grammar,you know you have the hard facts on your side. And your point about the black leaders crying ‘wolf’ is right on target.
Good article. Godspeed to you!
December 15th, 2005 at 10:20 am
You people are just being racist and plus I don’t think none of us can give an exact opinion about what happened on 1979 about the four killings you guys say that he did. This is simply because none of us were really there we don’t know what went on so we really have nothing to say. Basically the only one that can really judge us is God. No man can judge no other man. In God’s eyes we are all equal n no one has the right to change that. So all I want to say is that I would wish that all of you people stop making false or non-false accusations… I mean come on now leave the poor man alone he’s gone… resting in eternal life.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:23 am
wat I think that is going on that we;re going to end up back with racism and we need to stop it before it begins again.
December 15th, 2005 at 10:58 am
Julian Beach:
Those passages are directed at individuals, not at governments. God has specific purposes and passages for governments that are absolutely unique. Scroll up to see some of them. Those passages you quoted have no bearing.
December 15th, 2005 at 4:02 pm
That has to be the most stupidest commentary I have ever heard. To be convicted of a murder and executed when the prized witnesses are criminals trying to save their own ass is ridiculous. There were enough holes in the prosecution to cover the state of California.
December 15th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
yo, this is tookie, i’m in ruba, and a couple of you niggas, the
crew, need to call me damned straight. I gotta get the hell off
this fuckin island, I cant stand this fuckin place and I only been
here couple of days. Call me dudes, I need yo ass to help me.
Intercepted from Internet Stream from Aruba: barney
December 15th, 2005 at 9:13 pm
In a week’s time, I went from being a supporter of the death penalty, to on the fence, to totally against it. First and foremost, if someone commits a crime such as the one that Mr. Williams was convicted of, Mr. Williams included, the person must be punished severely. But the death penalty went from the most severe punishment to a media circus. There was so much media coverage which was sickening. There were more “field reporters” there than at the Super Bowl. Over 2000 families have lost a loved one in Iraq/Afghanistan, and instead of thanking them for their sacrifice, we were given the time of death of an executed inmate. Compounding this sick issue is the fact that the justice system in this country is so screwed beyond repair, that honestly, the only two options is to release everyone on death row and start over again, OR release everyone in the U.S. Government===and start over again. The system is screwed for everyone, by the way. I won’t use the race card, but please realize, I have it, and it was given to me at birth. I’m only 41 years old, and I can still remember my mother and sister bringing my first bike out of the store….The “colored entrance”. This is still a country whose not all, but many decisions are motivated by issues concerning race. On day, I pray, things will change, but we as a country, have a long way to go, if we will ever get there. Here’s an interesting concept for you. Stay with me here….Africans were brought over here, and tribes and even families were split up. Our customs, beliefs and language was beaten out of us. Some of us ran, but alot were caught because the slavemasters encouraged us to give them a “debriefing” as what was being talked about and done in the slave quarters. That was the beginning of our hating each other, which worked perfectly. If we were so busy trying to f**k each other up, we wouldn’t have time to f**k up the slavemasters. This has continued for some 400 years. But here’s the kicker. By having the shit kicked out of us for speaking our native language or observing our native cultures, we were forced to ASSIMILATE. That’s right, be just like them. The black culture is nothing more than a microcosim (sp)? of the U.S. society. Yes, the Crip, Bloods, GD’s, KKK, AB, ect. are killing in the streets, but did you catch the smug-assed look on GW as the number 30,000 rolled off his tongue? And we are supposed to stomach the death penalty for people, black and white, for being JUST LIKE YOU, GW? Give me a break. This may sound Pollyanish to alot of you because of some of the other issues involved, but be careful when you wish that my race should just kill each other off, thinking that you will be better off, because you can bet your bottom dollar that there is some country somewhere saying the same thing about the U.S. population. People, it’s time to get it together. Vote. Start a community newspaper. Run for office. Stand vigil at the next state sanctioned murder. Tookie is dead, and he ain’t coming back. Regardless of if he did it or not, till the end, his message was, “Let’s stop the hate and the killing”. I would venture to say that he was talking to everyone.
Peace
December 15th, 2005 at 9:17 pm
P.S. If Al, Jesse, and Snoop all we have to choose from as Black leaders……NO THANKS
December 15th, 2005 at 11:41 pm
12/14 Well folks, here yesterday, we executed a sorry ass white
son of a bitch, for a murder for hire killing and attempted murder
however one victim escaped with injuries, making it possible to
eventually identify the shooters. This sack of shit, shot to death
the ex-wife of a friend, and attempted to kill the new husband.
This lady had three childen with her ex-husband and was a real
beauty. Her husband was shot twice, broke loose and ran, and the
hit man’s son shot and tore a hole in his head, but he ran down
the highway until a passing motorist was stopped and took him to
the hospital. Police were called, but everyone was gone but the
dead body of the wife, lying a big pool of blodd from head shots.
After locating one of the witnesses, who had a part in the killing,
he cut a deal with the prosecutors for a short sentence and testified against the others. In short order, the shooter, his two
sons, and the friend were all in jail. The father, age 51, an alcoholic was given the death penalty 26 years ago. Yesterday at
age 77 he was executed by lethal injection by the state. He was the
oldest person in the USA on death row. The three other participants
eventually served between 3 and 8 years for being accessories to a
murder. Justice Delayed is Justice Denied. barney
December 16th, 2005 at 12:07 am
12/15 To J.C–Question, would you prefer to be in Africa now, or
in the US of A?? I live in the Deep South, my ancestors owned a
few slaves prior to the Civil War in Georgia, on small farms, not
great big plantations. 5 of my great uncles and great grandfather
fought for the Confederacy during the war 1860-1865. After the war
a number incld. my great grandfather moved here to farm, raise
cattle, and operate timber and a mercantile store business. At one
point he owned 5,000 acres of land in the Delta and hills. You
cannot farm that kind of acreage alone. The former slaves in Ga.
moved to here with our family to begin again, and never ran away
rebelled, or left our family. Many lived on the place for 25-30
years thereafter. One nanny raised all my grandfathers siblings
and sewed all the clothes for the entire household. She was given
her own home, money, clothes, and anything she wanted by the family.
We still have old pictures of her holding babies wearing a dress
that came down to her shoes. Poor farmers here did not have the
money to purchase slaves, lease or buy ships to go to Africa to
bring them to the Eastern coast or to New Orleans ports. Jews are
the persons who stole the seeds of Africa and brought them to our
shores, first up North, to work in factories, which failed. Then to
the cotton, sugar cane, and rice plantations of the Southland. This
usually was done after spending a year or two in the Caribbean to
learn our farming techniques first. You need to understand, that
not many farmers would intentionally harm their workers, whether
slaves or freemen, as they were responsible under the local laws
for their welfare, health, food, and clothing. An injured or a
disabled worker is of no use on a farm operation of any size.
My grandfather paid for 12 black children born on our family farm
never thought to do otherwise. They lived on his farm until he was
too old to farm, my grandmother had died, so he moved into town
but left everyting else in their care on the farm. Their home was
burned down by the KKK so they moved away, but attended my grand-
fathers funeral when he died at age 84. So you see, its a Southern
thing, that only we Southern blacks and whites understand. barney
December 16th, 2005 at 8:35 am
Barney, I am from the south.. Southeast Georgia, to be exact. Very commendable what your family did, but why don’t you read your post.
One nanny raised all my grandfathers siblings
and sewed all the clothes for the entire household. She was given
her own home, money, clothes, and anything she wanted by the family.
(continued, long-term servitude complete with entitlements)
5 of my great uncles and great grandfather
fought for the Confederacy during the war 1860-1865.
(to maintain the status quo)
You need to understand, that
not many farmers would intentionally harm their workers, whether
slaves or freemen, as they were responsible under the local laws
for their welfare, health, food, and clothing. An injured or a
disabled worker is of no use on a farm operation of any size
(i guess chopping a slave’s foot off for running was accidental)
I completely understand what you are saying, but I could never begin to pretend to know what it feels like to be a southern white, like you will never know what it is to be me. The best that we can do is to stop pretending we know what the other wants, open some dialogue and work it out.
Would I rather be in Africa? Hell no. I don’t know anyone over there. Due to slavery, I can only trace my ancestry back 4 friggin generations. Sad, isn’t it? How far can you trace yours? I ain’t mad at you, but don’t think for a minute I don’t resent it. It wasn’t your fault, But don’t be mad at me because I do.
JC
(a southern gentleman)
December 16th, 2005 at 3:27 pm
tookie should have lived ur just lookin at the negitive side
so i say fu
December 16th, 2005 at 4:46 pm
Tone: Your comments in post 448 are biased and myopic once again. Let me make sure I write my comments clearly so you won’t misunderstand the content because of some missing words. Now, interpretations are based on perspective; meaning, if you already approach a text (holy scripture lets say Christian Bible) with some point in mind (for example killing Tookie or whomever is on death row), you are likely if not prone to find a sentence or two out (I.E. Romans 13:1 - “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.”) as justification for executing or punishing someone who did not submit to authorities. This submission to authority if read strictly, can be interpretated as supporting a dictator, totalitarian regime, or a democratic state by the way. Many Christians have argued that certain politicians, Bush Jr., or the California Gov. have been put in their respective positions of power by God, which is irrational and unlikely. That is what I mean as a dangerous path, Tone. These types of mis-interpretations or finding justification for something you already have in mind is not good argumentation or sincere. It is manipulation and taking things out of HISTORICAL context that does not give room for falsification of claims.
Another issue is the credibility of these texts. How do you know they were written by a God (this notion of God is also up for interpretation.) Any holy scripture, or text is a historical document, which is mostly interpreted in the present. Don’t get me wrong I believe in a God but my God would never profess to give full deference to another human being in political power. Politics and religious beliefs (or spirituality) need to stay far away from each other. And in the case of the dealth penalty as a form of tool for use by the state against those who don’t submitt to human authority, not all governments have this tool because it is uncivilized, and medieval or antiquated.
Quickly back to Iraq. When did the sovereign state of Iraq play a part in the sad, devastating attacks on September 11, 2001? What are you referring to when you make the claim “This sovereign state engaged US forces over 350 times in the year preceding the war. That’s almost once a day.” China, North Korea, and Iran are more recalcitrant than little Iraq, but yes Iraq has some special resources and was the weaker state. Remember the invasion of Iraq was justified by Bush Jr. and his “advisors” for some fabricated link to 9/11 and of course the big lie weapons of mass destruction. Is this invasion also found in the Bible to counter what other “fundamentalist” say their own holy scripture tells them? Or does everything fall on the Media as you say? Or perhaps the clear evidence from the 9/11 commission, UN leaders, and other on-the-ground investigators have shown? Or perhaps my own research trips to the middle east?
Back to executed Tookie: When you say: “No one here is using the interpretation of scriptures to justify evil actions. Some people quoted reasonable scripture’s to support opinions. Opinions that you dismissed and held in contempt merely because of this support,” it is incorrect. The evil action that you justify is the execution of a human being regardless of guilt or innocence. There are more humane ways to punish those who “don’t submitt to authority” or are charged and convicted as criminals against the state. And I dismissed the opinion because it was founded on faulty and irrelevant data; not on evidence directly connected to the death penalty or criminal justice system but on abstract historical arguments.
I have no idea what you meant by “Facts are subject to credibility, reasonable statements are independent of credibility because they are……reasonable”. What is reasonable? What are reasonable scriptures or statements? Those that support your claim or how you put it “opinion”? Reasonableness is a tricky notion here. Can’t base your claims on something being reasonable. We can all are about something being reasonable as long as that which is reasonable supports your actions or claims.
December 16th, 2005 at 4:57 pm
last sentence should have read: We can all argue about something being reasonable as long as that which is reasonable supports your actions or claims.
December 17th, 2005 at 2:56 pm
I am a Black British professional who has visited your country a number of times having enjoyed US hospitality.
I noticed reference in the article to European Anti Americanism; I don’t believe that the European dislike toward the death penalty is Anti American but merely fostered by moral considerations.
Executions have been carried out in the UK and Europe for more than 2000 years so we’re certainly no strangers to them although now it’s considered morally reprehensible by many.
I have noticed that Americans often perceive political criticisms as Anti Americanism although I’m against the death penalty I’m certainly not Anti American.
History is the most important teacher of all; at the end of the second world war both Britain and America allowed hundreds if not thousands of Nazi’s to go free in order to fight the emerging Russian superpower; these freed Nazi’s were responsible for taking part in the murder of millions of civilians throughout Europe but their ‘usefulness’ saved them from execution. The reality in the world we live is that no justice system is perfect and justice is often highly selective and hence never truly fair.
In England we have two famous cases referred to as the ‘Birmingham Six ’ and the ‘Guildford’ Four’ where a total of ten men were convicted of terrorist bombings but later found innocent after spending many years in prison. If we still had the death penalty they’d be dead.
An innocent Timothy Evans, a man of simple mind confessed under intimidation to the murder of his girlfriend and was hung for the crime committed by the serial killer John Reginald Christie.
I have little sympathy for killers although I cant say I’d trust either the British or US justice system to such a degree that I could be 100% sure innocents wouldn’t’ be executed.
On a more moralistic tone I do believe that there is a God who doesn’t wish for man to kill under any circumstances nor commit any other sin. ‘An eye for an eye’ is an Old Testament sentiment not fostered by Jesus or his Christian followers.
If you examine recorded history over a five thousand year period there’s a formulae which always seems to manifest itself i.e. ‘violence breeds violence and hatred breeds hatred’. Ultimately only compassion wins over violence and hate.
Britain has turned its back on executions and have banned hand gun ownership although we export for sale hand guns to the US.
Does the US really want to pick up the swords and practices the Europeans have grown to hate?
I don’t believe Executions or should I say ‘killings ‘ will make this world a better place or bring us any closer to God. I only hope that compassion is the victor. I wish all of my brothers and sisters in the US of every ethnicity and religious denomination peace. Kill no more.
Norman Washington Spence
England, UK
December 18th, 2005 at 1:15 am
barney stop thinkin you sound smart when you try to talk n know everything
December 18th, 2005 at 10:03 pm
12/17 MMHMM: I dont know much, but I do know that things are headed for Hell in a Handbasket the way
they are going. No country can be divided solely along racial lines that prevents overall progress for
the whole of the population.Pres. Abe Lincoln, once proclaimed, ” a house divided against itself cannot
stand.” He was right about that. I do know this, no one, white or black, or asian, or latino can pull
himself out of poverty, ignorance, and apathy, unless, he first decides to do it themself with their own
intelligence, hard work, perseverance, never give up attitude, in other words, the harder you work the
faster and greater your chances for success. barney1938
December 20th, 2005 at 1:17 am
Norman Washington Spence: I concur! How are my London, and Oxford these days?
December 21st, 2005 at 3:27 pm
Twas the night before Christmas and all through San Quentin,
the crips were protesting, and liberals were ventin’.
The cyanide hung by the chamber wth care,
in hopes that the reaper soon would be there.
The inmates were nestled all snug in their bed ;
except for Old Tookie, who soon would be dead.
And me with my beer mug, dressed warm in my flannell,
had curled up to watch it, on the Fox News Channel.
I set up my TIVO to record the news station,
and thoroughly loved the momentous occasion.
It seemed lady justice had gotten her way,
and that there would be one less savage today.
When outside the jail there arose such a clatter,
the cameras had turned to see what was the matter.
When what to my civilized eyes did appear,
but a lineup of actors, all liberal, half queer.
The misguided freaks drew some curious looks,
as they proclaimed his innocence; clutching his books.
The tears then flew out from Sarandon’s eyes,
as she nominated him again for the Nobel Peace Prize.
The actors were tethered to an ACLU sleigh,
all towing the line of the urban decay.
On Asner, on Penn, on liberal cop-haters,
On Sharpton, on Jesse and other race-baiters.
Then at 12:01 all curled up like a beetle, Tookie cried like a bitch as
they gave him the needle.
When up from the actors there arose such a cry, they had failed in
their mission, and Tookie DID DIE !!
I heard Bill O’Reilly say, as I turned out my light, Merry Christmas to
all … there was justice tonight !!
December 21st, 2005 at 5:11 pm
I have read all your comments, only two people know if Tookie is gulity. Himself and God. The State of CA did not create his life, they don’t have the right to take it.
December 21st, 2005 at 6:32 pm
Dirty: By your logic - it is OK to murder if no one is around.
December 22nd, 2005 at 11:00 am
Dirty: Actually 3 other people know Tookie did it - Tookie didn’t create their lives so he shouldn’t have killed them.
December 25th, 2005 at 10:10 pm
Merry Christmas
December 27th, 2005 at 12:00 pm
Wow, you are truly a very interesting brother. I can understand where you’re coming from on some of your philosophy, given that you are from the same streets as Tookie. I grew up in Northern CA, and I grew up with a strong southern grandmother. One of the first things that she taught her grandchildren, once we all started driving was to only stop for a cop in lighted areas. This gave me a big clue that the cops and the system were corrupted. Don’t get me wrong, Tookie’s hands were dirty, but were they really dirty with this crime? I don’t think so. There were others with him when these crime were committed and if you are with someone that does a crime, you are sentenced pretty much the same as they are. This did not happen, also the main “singer” is in prison in Canada for 3 additional murders. People have come forward to say what they saw while this trial was going on. The officers in the jail had given the guy from Canada the reports to read regarding this case. Does this not sound a little fishy to you? I would believe in capital punishment if the system worked, but it does not, unfortunately we have dirty cops, DA’s and other political authorities that will build cases on people just for political reasons. I am a product of the Black Panther Party and I know kind of what has gone on in the Black community. Unfortunately the White Man (not all of them) is afraid of strong black men, and they will do anything to bring him down. Why was Gotti not given the death penalty, or Manson? Again if the system was fair I would probably have your attitude, but it is not. Tookie would have done more for the community alive, not dead. This man did redeem himself, and he did serve a long time in the prison system. GANGS, the crisp did not create them, gangs have been around since the 1800’s, if you did not study history in school, I’m sure you saw the movie “Gangs Of New York” if not maybe you should rent it. Blockbuster has several copies. Everyone is harping on he started the “Crips”, South Central has always had gangs, so he started a gang, unfortunately it grew in to a large criminal organization, I pray for all of them because they don’t understand that this is what the white man wants them to do kill each other. Back to gangs, like I said, this has been going on for years, people needed someone to protect themselves, so they did join these criminal organizations, but believe me, from where ever you sit, getting your ass kicked or possible killed, gangs are not that bad. It sounds like you did grow up near these activities and I must commend you for not taking part, but unfortunately, everyone is not going to be as strong nor will everyone have your opportunities. Give this man a break, he did what he had to do to survive, and it did get out of hand, but he did redeem himself. God has forgiven him for his crimes. Man does not. Please do some studying on your people, maybe this will give you a better concept as to why people in the ghettos do act the way they do. Not saying that people are not responsible for their own actions, but to say that when we put people in a situation and we leave them to deal with it, what you see is what you get.
December 31st, 2005 at 4:13 pm
Check out comment number 520:
“It seemed lady justice had gotten her way,
and that there would be one less savage today.”
That poet sounds to me like who’s running the “justice system” in L.A. Less rhetorically, please take some time out to consider the “11th Hour Writs Showing Actual Innocence” (or at least a Constitutionally flawed trial, which should have been enough for clemency or a new trial) and some intriguing affidavits linked to towards the bottom of the homepage of www.savetookie.org.
I don’t know what really happened that day, neither do the judge, the jury, the police, the prosecutor nor you. And that’s not guilt Constitutionally proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Nor is our system supposed to kill somebody for something other than what that person has been charged with that has been proven in a court of law, so killing Williams for founding the Crips, is not an appropriate justification either. As for that inauspicious founding, it seems as though that was something that Williams was trying mightily to undo, which should be seen as a great example for those already caught up in gangs, much better than the official confirmation that “eye for an eye” is the law of the land. Gandhi once said “An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind.” If not dead, that is.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:41 am
Raving Moderate - you are missing the BIGGER picture. During an interview some years back, Tookie let his guards down and practically admitted to the murders. “He wanted to make a name for himself, he wanted to be feared/respected…”. - now that doesn’t sound like someone who’s going rob a candy store. And while this is not conclusive evidence that he’s guilty, I’m more appalled by your sentiment and support for such an individual. Do you have such sympathy for him because of your skin color, or is it out principle/personal conviction against capital punishment? If it is because you’re also black, then you are no better than the ignorant whites that sympathize with white on minority crimes. Ignorance is the real crime here - black or white. I would rather spend my sympathy on the victims and family members of which you undoubtedly HAVE NOT!
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:49 am
Raving moderate - enough with the “eye for eye” quote. This primarily applies to individual behavior, not governments. In other words “turn the other cheek” would imply that the government should ignore the Nazi Germany’s and hope for the best. Poet says (from a gov’t standpoint) “turn the other cheek, and we will slapped silly (and speak German)”. Perhaps you should rename yourself to Raving Idiot.
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:39 pm
Actually, how many times have you heard of a person in jail for many, many years only to find out DNA did not match, and they did not do it?? It is not like it is a surprise to this country?? Although, the only “entity” Tookie will have to answer to is GOD—no one else! I feel the death penalty is a final choice we should not have the right to issue, we are not GOD…The whole ball of wax—THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SUCKS–the only people that getaway with murder are politicians—so I am tired of everyone saying how bad Tookie is, give it a rest people…NONE of any of you know for sure if he did it??
January 3rd, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Caroline, I agree the justice system sucks - the weak link is the jurors who range from biased to extreme prejudice, and when they are composed mainly of white jurors, you have a problem when you’re an ethnic minority. I’ve seen too many double standards with verdicts and sentences against minorities. I know O.J. Simpson’s not guilty verdict infuriated much of White America, the problem is most of White American stopped there and failed to understand that that’s what most of what non-whites have had to face for decades. How do you think the saying “A Chinaman’s chance” came about? I’m leaning towards professional jurors, hopefully there would be more consistency in verdicts - black or white.
January 3rd, 2006 at 11:07 pm
I want know why judge let him death i want life for stanley”tookie”williams
i want meet to him i am Deaf i can talk to him that no reason
thanks
Sign
Anita prentiss
January 5th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
Well Black pundit I can see you are Burnt out and bored blogging. Why don’t you just shut down your blogs comment section and just blog as you like when ready. Then people won’t have to worry about waiting to see when you are goin to blog something. If it was not for the black conservatives blog and websites that have you blogrolled you would not even get this much traffic and commenters.
The least you could DO is blog something but you are bored and burnt out. This comes from repeating what other people in the meadia and blog world.
Write and say, this makes a blogger bored just repeating what other say just repeating what other conservatives said on the interet. Liberal or conservative whta ever it the same result burnt out.
Im just asking because the conservative blacks have you blogrolled but you blog nothing one once a month you blog and it is becoming one every two months.
Shut down the comment section I recommend but this is your joint I’m just asking Tavares Forby (a.k.a black pundit.com) what other people anc commenters want to ask you but don’t. What do you say about B.P.
But you don’t even answer you comement section very much so “OH WELL” at least I sp[oke for the people.
January 9th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I’m in the process of writing a paper on Tookie Williams for my AP English course. I am currently a senior in high school. I don’t know how old you are, or how much experience you have, but I’m suprised because after reading your article, I realized it’s primarily based on opinion. Issues such as these shouldn’t even have opinions being broadcasted all over the Internet. Someone thats not looking to object you would carry a lot of your bias statements as facts, when they’re completely incorrect.You didn’t go in-depth about the evidence presented at Mr. William’s trial. In fact, you didn’t mention many of the physical evidence that did NOT point to him, and has still been unidentified. You also didn’t care to mention the witnesses that were all felons facing fraud, murder, and rape charges looking for leniency. You also didn’t mention the police informant, or anything for that matter that could cause Mr. Williams further investigation amongst reasonable doubt. A man died, a no one’s even remotely sure he killed those people. How can the victim’s family members’ sleep better, if they’re not sure they found their guy? That’s not justice, no matter how you put it.
January 9th, 2006 at 10:38 pm
I wrote the comment above in case you want to contact me.
January 10th, 2006 at 6:16 pm
I have read a few of the posts here and can feel what some of you have to say,yet at the same time have we the Amerikkkan people become so brain dead to the realities around us. I am an ex gang banger who has known Tookie since i was a youngster back on the block pttin in work.That is until Tookie found out i had joined the gang and he personnally came and found me on the block and we had a sit down that was going to go one way his way. Tookie said to me during this sit down that he could not allow me to get caught up in the gang thing because i had a future and that you will walk away from this as now and i would make everyone aware that you are off limits. I don’t know if my Comrade commited the crimes that he was murdered for but capital punishment has not solved a thing since it reinstatement.Have you forgoetten that the judicaial system is not foolproof. In the last five years alone it has been proven that there have been innocent men that have sat on death row for twenty years or better to only find out that the wrong person had been imprisoned.I am soory for the families loses. This is bigger than a black andwhite thing. Capital punishment does’t solve a thing. Tookie’s books have help to do what no-one else has been able to do stop gang violence and bring truces to gangs all over Amerikkka. this just a quick rant from an Revolutionary Afrikan Warrior
January 10th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
To aire is human to forgive is devine.
January 18th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Dear Pastor Shirley
Please say more. Your comments may guide us…BW
February 17th, 2006 at 11:39 am
CAN YOU SENT PICTURE
February 19th, 2006 at 6:13 pm
Man I Can Care Less About Tookie Or Even A C-Loc At That
G-Gause Ima FaithFull Black Gangsta Disciple , So Our KinG
David Is AlReady Dead And Our 2nd KinG Larry Hoover Is Still
LivinG So My PitchForks Is Still Raised AlonG With My 6 Points Of David
Slash 274-14 Boss ChiCaGo Affiliated GDN Folks-Nation OrGanization
March 7th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
us a wite boy huh!? shut yo damn mouth u dont know s**t about da streets, an all da crazy s**t dat go down. probably live in da muthafu**in suburbs an S**t. yo biggest problem is probably what to buy wit yo money. we tryin to hustle an make dis money,son, an stayin alive. specially a young muthafu**a growin up wit no daddy.
March 12th, 2006 at 5:39 pm
I agree that he was wrong for killing those people but I don’t agree that he should have been executed. The Crips were not founded to kill and destroy others to him it was his way of belonging and having a family and it evolved into something beyond what he could not even believe and fully agree with. This is why I believe that he was sincere about what his life used to be and should have been aloowed to live so that he could’ve tried to change just a few minds of youths today even if it was from a correctional facility.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:59 am
To aire is human to forgive is devine
To spell correctly is intelligent!
June 3rd, 2006 at 9:08 am
Words have nothing to do with reality. The mentality of a murderer or other criminals is “I won’t get caught” and many get away with their crimes. “Why should I work for Mc Donald’s for minimum wage, save to go to college, when I can sell drugs and have gold and fancy cars” is what makes a boy turn gang banger. You could go to jail, is the “why not”, I’ve explained to the high schoolers considering crime to earn a living. Didn’t listen, wound up in jail. Some wound up dead. When one is living in a neighborhood fraught with gangs, it’s actually self preservation to join one. Once in, hell to get out. I’ve talked to some that went through it. The death penalty didn’t stop a 27 year old from kidnapping, murdering, and raping a 10 year old girl after she died. The father is probably stopped from murdering the monster, because the police caught him and put him in jail, where he is protected. There are some people wrongfully convicted of murders, so I don’t condone the death penalty. I don’t think it deters crime at all, and I personally won’t want to pull the switch, even for the murderer mentioned above. Tookie’s execution probably appeased those who abhor gang violence, and inflamed those that belonged to gangs. A lifetime in prision is a better punishment. To be tried by peers would mean he’d have been tried by gang bangers. Wonder what their verdict would have been?
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:48 pm
I was a victim of an attempted murder and this person was allowd to take a plea. He is still out here and no doubt killing people. Even though his acts destroyed my life as I knew it I would not want him dead.
I think that is a job for the creator. I will never accept the death penalty as a form of punishment I dont think we as humans have the right to judge. Go in peace.
July 1st, 2006 at 3:58 pm
The fact is that black piece of shit is dead. Who knows how many people that monster would’ve killed had he been given life in prion, first of all. Second, his apology wasn’t sincere on his website, since he was still an active member of that gang, and still ran things in prison.
As far as his death goes, I know some were hoping for his execution, because it would’ve given them a chance to become the leader of the gang, pre and simple. I know alot of crips were waiting for him to die, since they knew their chance to be leader was coming.
Finally, no good would’ve been come, (however you choose to spell it) from keeping him alive. Our taxes and mine aren’t there to support that piece of human filth.
So, praise this trash if that’s what you wish. The bottom line is that a phony and a murderer are dead. Good fucking riddance, Tookie. May you rot in hell forever. My only wish is that I couldn’t have attended bot the execution and funeral since I would’ve videotaped it, and sold it on the internet. Take it however you choose to take it. I’ve said my piece
July 22nd, 2006 at 2:41 pm
they should not of killed him.he was a good man.bk was him.if u crip throw it up.if u blue then u tru forget bout the jew
November 28th, 2006 at 8:03 pm
ya’ll are some of the most close minded and cold blooded people ever.He may have done wrong but he repented for his sins.He shouldnt have died. If he should have died so should have the people that executed him.I understand he may have killed people but everyone deserves a second chance.Anyone that doesn’t agree with me you are ignorant.