The famous HispanicPundit and I (BlackPundit) had a good yahoo IM debate about federal spending for stem cell research. I though this topic was quite interesting so I decided to post it. I know its long, but read it anyway. Parental Guidance is Advised!
HispanicPundit: I have been meaning to talk to you about your stem cell discussion
HispanicPundit: you miss a subtle point on one of your responses
BlackPundit: what was that
HispanicPundit: Federal funding can boost research for quicker results. Let me ask you this, did the private sector get us to the moon? No, federal funding did.
HispanicPundit: that’s what you wrote
HispanicPundit: but like I explained to your bud BJ, you can’t use the moon example to rebut the private sector argument
BlackPundit: why not
HispanicPundit: there was NO compelling reason for the private sector to get into going to the moon, no money to be made, so the federal government had to fund it, or it wouldn’t go anywhere, HOWEVER, with Stem Cell Research there is HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO BE MADE *if* the predictions turn out to be true, so the fact that they are still reluctant to enter, is a clear indicator that even the non-partisan market doesn’t believe all the hype
BlackPundit: but still, just for the fact that federal spending will boost results that is a benefit in itself
BlackPundit: but it is a good enough comparison
HispanicPundit: but remember, your not asking for federal funding per se, since Bush already is giving more than any past president, your asking for MUCH MORE
BlackPundit: and who’s to say going to the moon cannot make any money. that is not true, that is the same technology that gets satellites to orbit the earth
HispanicPundit: no, its a horrible comparison, the main reason people bring up the “private sector argument” is because everybody knows that the markets are VERY efficient, they are an objective measure of true potential, as objective as you can get, and this objective measuring stick isn’t buying all the hype behind embryonic stem cell research, so you never addressed that aspect of the argument, the STRONGEST part of the argument
HispanicPundit: cost/profit ratio of getting to the moon is horrible
BlackPundit: that is not a horrible comparison
BlackPundit: nope, not true
HispanicPundit: if you understand the power of the argument it is
BlackPundit: all these satellite companies that uses the same approach to get to the moon
HispanicPundit: think about this T
HispanicPundit: it costs the US BILLIONS to get to the moon, HUGE amounts, if you adjust for inflation, it cost the US more than the whole of Qualcomm is worth
HispanicPundit: there is no way any private sector could have recuperated that from the technology it invented
HispanicPundit: to get us there
HispanicPundit: it would have been a dead idea, worse than globalstar
BlackPundit: there are thousands of companies that use satellites
HispanicPundit: right, they would have got some of the money back, but not a lot of it
HispanicPundit: they would have still been negative
BlackPundit: we would not have all these cool technologies w/o satellites
BlackPundit: especially military benefits
HispanicPundit: yes we would have
BlackPundit: so your argument is not true
HispanicPundit: were going off on a tangent here
HispanicPundit: my point with the satellite thing is not to say that it was worthless
BlackPundit: we are talking about the comparison of fed spending for going to the moon vs fed funding stem cell research
HispanicPundit: I am only saying that any private sector company could not have been able to recoup its $$
HispanicPundit: it invested
HispanicPundit: w/ the moon
HispanicPundit: but w/ embryonic stem cell research, if the promises were there, they would recoup WAY MORE than what they invested
BlackPundit: with all these sat companies, yes they have
BlackPundit: do you not know how many sat are in orbit
HispanicPundit: fool, look at Globalstar that alone tanked
HispanicPundit: tanked
BlackPundit: one technology, woopty doo
HispanicPundit: so did Motorola
BlackPundit: look at military advances
BlackPundit: Boeing, Lockheed Martin, direct TV, there are thousands of satellite companies
HispanicPundit: right, but the private sector does not make money off of military
BlackPundit: that is not true
HispanicPundit: Boeing, and military contracts are like 10% of the private sector
BlackPundit: Boeing is private sector
BlackPundit: which makes money of military, and tons of it.
HispanicPundit: right, but it just doesn’t work for the military
BlackPundit: exactly
HispanicPundit: ok, you’re not getting my point
HispanicPundit: and I don’t want to keep typing the same point over and over
BlackPundit: they are private sector that making money because of the results of federal spending for going to the moon
BlackPundit: that is my point
HispanicPundit: I am NOT arguing against that
BlackPundit: yes u is
HispanicPundit: I am arguing that no private sector would have made profits by being the ones that got us to the moon
HispanicPundit: notice the difference
HispanicPundit: ?
BlackPundit: u said I couldn’t compare fed spending for going to the moon cause there was no money to be made
HispanicPundit: I am arguing that no private sector would have made profits by being the ones that got us to the moon
HispanicPundit: please try and grasp my point
BlackPundit: ok I understand that, but that doesn’t mean my comparison is not correct w/ stem cell
HispanicPundit: yes
HispanicPundit: because that is not the same case with embryonic stem cell research
HispanicPundit: any company that invents a cure for any one of these diseases it is supposed to cure will go from small to HUGE over night
BlackPundit: my comparison is that fed funded going to the moon, private sector made money off of it. stem cell funded by feds, private sector makes money off of it
BlackPundit: that is my comparison
BlackPundit: which is true
HispanicPundit: but when your the private sector, you are asking yourself can YOU AS THE PRIVATE SECTOR make money on it
BlackPundit: eventually they will
BlackPundit: once fed boost the research
HispanicPundit: no way, they would OVERNIGHT
HispanicPundit: with embryonic stem cell research
BlackPundit: huh?
HispanicPundit: if I owned a company, and my company through embryonic stem cell research discovered the cure for Alzheimer’s, you don’t think that I would become HUGELY rich over night
HispanicPundit: ?
BlackPundit: of course
HispanicPundit: that is what I am trying to say
BlackPundit: but at this time that is not the case
BlackPundit: there are still a lot of issues with the stem cell theory
BlackPundit: and that is why I feel it is a good idea for feds to fund it to boost getting these issues out the way
HispanicPundit: right, but if the potential for making cures really there, private sectors themselves would start the much needed research, since there was so much money to be made if a cure did come out
HispanicPundit: THAT’S MY POINT
HispanicPundit: if the potential were really there, it would get the funding from the private sector
HispanicPundit: because of what may happen when these results come out
BlackPundit: like my article said, it is the theory that is promising
HispanicPundit: but if that theory really is promising, why haven’t the private sectors RUSHED TO IT?
BlackPundit: plus, each technology is approached differently
BlackPundit: there are still a lot of bugs
HispanicPundit: Qualcomm invested BILLIONS into CDMA when EVERYBODY thought it couldn’t be done, that it was “impossible” yet it got its much needed research from the private sector
BlackPundit: what im saying is, let fed fund it to get out all the bugs and then the private sector will come in and take over
BlackPundit: you cannot compare all technologies the same
HispanicPundit: look T
HispanicPundit: you are still missing my point
BlackPundit: no I am not
HispanicPundit: we are debating whether those bugs are SERIOUS or not
HispanicPundit: that is the debate
BlackPundit: Man you have chaged this debat like thee different times. Can you let me know when youa are going to chage it again. I completely understand what you are saying
HispanicPundit: we both agree the fed shouldn’t just throw money at who ever ask for it
HispanicPundit: you are not understanding my point
BlackPundit: at the point of time, the bugs are that serious where the private sector is hesitant to fund it completely
HispanicPundit: right, so if the private industry sees embryonic stem cell research as not worth pouring in the money into it, why should the fed do it?
BlackPundit: like technology, you cannot expect things to be perfect at the beginning of research
BlackPundit: because the theory is promising
BlackPundit: it needs to be looked at
HispanicPundit: you see, your begging the question
HispanicPundit: you can’t assume “the theory is promising”
BlackPundit: it is!
HispanicPundit: that is precisely what we are debating here
HispanicPundit: HOW PROMISING
HispanicPundit: not talking about imagination promising, but the scienctifical promising
BlackPundit: if we had your mentality, we would be a third world country
HispanicPundit: obviously the private sector doesn’t think it’s promising enough to invest money into it
HispanicPundit: if we had YOUR mentality, we would be a third world country
BlackPundit: lol
HispanicPundit: your advocating throwing money at anything that sounds good
BlackPundit: look, some things you have to look at and make a call on what to do. and I think this research is worth gambling on.
BlackPundit: if we can be the first ones to make a big break through with this technology, we will be the SHIT
BlackPundit: I understand what you are saying. I guess the difference between you and me is that I am the gambler and you are not
HispanicPundit: no, the difference between you and me is that I want my taxes smaller, so I hate government waste
HispanicPundit: for anything to get federal funding it has to pass some level of “true promising” for me to allow my tax dollars to go to it
BlackPundit: this is something I would not mind spending my tax dollars on. Just like spending my tax dollars on going to the moon.
HispanicPundit: yes, but if you had this same mentality to all federal funding, we’d be paying 90% taxes
BlackPundit: yea and we will be a third world country with no advances in technology and a weak military
BlackPundit: well maybe I’ll send stem cell research a donation
BlackPundit: cause I want to live forever
HispanicPundit: besides, the question isn’t federal funding, REMEMBER, Bush is already spending MUCH MORE federal funding than any past president, what y our are asking for is MORE THAN IS ALREADY GIVEN
BlackPundit: I’m not asking for more
BlackPundit: I’m happy for what he has done